G-Minor XLIX

[Mesix]

I had a great start this morning, but I missed the Oracle! That will cost me about 4-6 turns at the end of the game

 

[vexing]

I had a great start this morning, but I missed the Oracle!

that's contradictory. unless you were trying to save oracle for industrial era, with any reasonably strong start you should have no trouble building it before an AI

 

[HideInLight]

that's contradictory. unless you were trying to save oracle for industrial era, with any reasonably strong start you should have no trouble building it before an AI

Yea, I thought the same thing, dont really get it.

If you go straight GL->NC->Oracle, you should have it done around T-45, at which point most AI dont even have Philosophy researched.

 

[Mesix]

It is difficult to prioritize with quick speed. I wasn't really saving it per se, it was next on my list of things to build when the AI finished it around turn 70. Yes, I could have had it by about turn 50ish, I just messed it up. Everything else was a great start. I was about to finish Education when the Oracle was built and I considered my options...and decided to start over.

 

[Mesix]

So here is how my latest game is going. 100 turns in, 4 cities founded. Wonders built in 3 of them (haven't had a chance on Nipur yet. I have founded and enhanced my religion. I have 12 or so policies done on turn 100 and I am coming along at a good clip. I should put it into turbo mode when I reach the Industrial Era.

I could be in the Renaissance Era at this point, but since I am going Piety instead of Rationalism, it didn't seem like such a priority. I decided to ensure Alhambra before going for Acoustics.

Here are a couple of screenshots:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[Mesix]

BTW...my previous game was a better start, all the way up until I missed the Oracle. I made sure to get the Oracle in this game, but I think I am actually a policy behind where I was in the other game and for sure I am a couple of techs behind. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[vexing]

you haven't explored the map =0
meeting CS is really really important.

i was at 146 bpt and 254 cpt on turn 100

 

[Mesix]

I experienced an early DOW which limited my early exploration. I have one scout out exploring still and the other 2 scouts became archers and were upgraded to CB to help with the defense of my territory. I welcome some DOW from the AI, because if they are building units then they are not building wonders. I probably should have built my National College before expanding. It will be finished on turn 104.

 

[HideInLight]

So here is how my latest game is going. 100 turns in, 4 cities founded. Wonders built in 3 of them (haven't had a chance on Nipur yet. I have founded and enhanced my religion. I have 12 or so policies done on turn 100 and I am coming along at a good clip. I should put it into turbo mode when I reach the Industrial Era.

I could be in the Renaissance Era at this point, but since I am going Piety instead of Rationalism, it didn't seem like such a priority. I decided to ensure Alhambra before going for Acoustics.

Here are a couple of screenshots:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

It seems that your expansioning is actually slowing you down lol And definately focus way more on exploring and meeting CS's. Imo CS management is the factor that makes the biggest difference between players in scenarios like this.

Here is my T-100 screenshot playing Pacal with 1 city:
(notice the minimap - I already made contact with all opponents and most of the CS's. I was missing 3 at that point, sadly one of them cultural)

Spoiler :

 

[Xger]

I don't count the culture from the wonder because there's a good argument that this is actually a negative amount. A typical 3 culture wonder (1 on the wonder and 2 from constitution) will be worth an additional 3 * 2.61 * 1.2 minus 3 * 1.91 * 1.2 culture in the capital, i.e. 2.5 more culture per turn, if you have Alhambra and the Hermitage.

It seems odd you are demonstrating the amount of culture generated but delibrately leave some out. If you count have reformation, you should count the world wonder necessary to get reformation. Also, there are some wonders that are quite low priority and can be easy to get (ankwor(sp?) wat for instance) that can be built that you may not have built in the capitol due to time contraints.

Yea, I thought the same thing, dont really get it.

If you go straight GL->NC->Oracle, you should have it done around T-45, at which point most AI dont even have Philosophy researched.

I was confused as well . I usually go GL, NC, ToA, stop ToA to do Petra, ToA, HG, then Oracle and have only lost it once.

The thing I lost in my most recent game was Catherdals. That was quite disappointing. My faith wasn't that strong because I hadn't started working the 9 or so desert tiles I had (6 river hills, 1 sheep ) so I founded the religion second. I am going to scrap the game when I get back to it.

 

[Mesix]

My should improve, but it is still not a sub 200 game. I'll finish it up tomorrow.

 

[Neuro]

I've been trying Incas, but I can't seem to match the output of you guys. I thought since the landmass is rainforest, if I take Incas and set the Age to 3 Billion, there'll be plenty of hills, giving me both Terrace Farms, plus a mobility advantage over everyone else, since they'll be slogging through rainforest, and I can cut through the hills. I reroll till I get a nice petra spot with mountains and hills, and I get monster pop growth (27 or so by turn 100) but my cult and science is always behind you guys.

Trying to decide if maybe that higher pop will allow me to eventually catch up, or maybe I'm just not getting good enough rolls.

 

[kirbdog]

It seems odd you are demonstrating the amount of culture generated but delibrately leave some out.

Because you have to decide whether the factor is positive or negative and because there are variable quantities of culture on wonders.

 

[Mesix]

I was able to knock 15 turns off my previous attempt. With a better A game in the early part I could be under 200. Not sure if I will have time to play this one again before the update.

 

[TyfoonTurk]

Because you have to decide whether the factor is positive or negative and because there are variable quantities of culture on wonders.

i don;t understand

 

[Xger]

you haven't explored the map =0
meeting CS is really really important.

i was at 146 bpt and 254 cpt on turn 100

I am really wondering how you managed this, in my most recent attempt which might get me back into medal contention I had 245 cpt and ~125 spt at turn 113. I must be missing out on some things. Pushing under 170 seems like it will be quite a stretch for me.

A run down on this recent go (it's a bit long):

Spoiler :

Playing as Arabia, settle on turn 3 to get a decent petra area starting on a hill. Start with building monument, buy scouts as quickly as I can (3 city states on the coast under me, so bought first scout before turn 10) til I have 3 or so. Policies are open tradition, open liberty, free worker, the reduced founding penalty.

After researching potery build granary. From scouting, get the faith for a pantheon, take desert folklore. Finish granary as I finish writing, start GL. Start research toward currency and Petra. I got a heavy barb invasion at this point (3 from north, 1 from east, 2 from south) and have to use scouts and a rush bought archer to clean up.

Finish GL pop philosophy. Build a scout as it lines up with the growth time in Mecca, start a settler the next turn. Buy a settler. Found the 2 around turn 50 or so (at work so I can't check precisely). After settler start ToA, finishing before Currency finishes. Start into HG, switch to Petra once able, finish that and then finish HG. Follow up with Oracle. While all this is happening I found Taoism and get a cathedral up 2 turns before Petra finishes and put artists in ASAP. I buy a worker and capture one from barbs.

This is the big hiccup for me in the game, I try to build Pyrmiads in the second city and MoH in the third. I lose out on both, one with 5 turns left, the other with 1 turn. Build Chichen Itza and Hagia Sophia in them instead, but it adds 23 and 24 turns before they get the +33%.

I rush bought libraries in the 2 extra cities and built NC after Oracle. I then as fast as I could muster rush bought Univeristies and all cultural buildings as fast as I could (gold was flowing quite well so there wasn't a time where hard building was faster).

I was in a golden age from the happiness triggered one after the reformation one (10-15 turn wait) until the end. I planted 7 artists over time. I went to the 10% in piety then finished tradition, then liberty, then piety, then opened patronage until I finally hit archaelogy and then finished freedom. I got research argreements as I could. I had 2 cultural allies from around turn 40 or so and a third I found around turn 130.

Any advice or discussion is welcome.

 

[Mesix]

I had been building 2 scouts before building a monument and a shrine. I like your approach to build the monument right away, buy the scouts, and get the from scouting instead of building a shrine. This allows you to build more important things in the critical early turns.

I played as Babylon. With the high , I skipped the GL (the AI goes after it anyway) and built ToA, Pyramids, and Petra in my capital early on. This provided a GE to rush a wonder in one of my other cities. Alternately, the GE could be settled near a city to get more :c5prduction: for the entire game. This is especially powerful once you have finished Freedom and on the quick speed where costs are lower.

 

[vexing]

scouts are horribly inefficient in terms of gold vs production (as is monument).
personally, for a one city game i don't build monument, using legalism instead. if i don't get an early culture ruin i reroll. this lets you build two scouts prior to pottery finishing for granary or shrine.

on prince bullying is easy. make sure you take advantage of that.

 

[Xger]

scouts are horribly inefficient in terms of gold vs production (as is monument).
personally, for a one city game i don't build monument, using legalism instead. if i don't get an early culture ruin i reroll. this lets you build two scouts prior to pottery finishing for granary or shrine.

on prince bullying is easy. make sure you take advantage of that.

The first statement confuses me a fair bit. Isn't the gold cost of buying something a function of production rounded to the nearest 10?

 

[vexing]

The first statement confuses me a fair bit. Isn't the gold cost of buying something a function of production rounded to the nearest 10?

nope, davemcw posted the formula in the strategy section. there's an exponent, which makes it so generally more expensive production things cost less gold/production, eg purely in terms of gold vs production it's a lot more efficient to buy a stadium (2.7 gold/production at standard speed) than a colosseum (5 gold/production). it's also more efficient to buy things at the longer speed levels vs shorter speed, eg a scout at standard speed is 140 gold / 25 production (5.6 gold/production) vs 100 / 16 (6.25) on quick

there are also "hurrycostmultiplier"s for a subset of (mostly early) things... eg monument has a +40% rush buy cost penalty, second worst only to courthouse.