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Game Facts - More observations, hints, tips and facts to victory

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by spiceant, Feb 4, 2006.

  1. spiceant

    spiceant Warlord

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    I have compiled some data on facts encountered in the game
    please forgive the few inaccuracy's.
    i used testing maps for the vast majority of this article

    Civic & City Upkeep:
    The following is related to city and civic upkeep

    1. All city upkeep is magnified by a constant that is related to map size and difficulty.
    2. This constant is (0,0422 * city size * distance to nearest capitol) for emperor difficulty games with duel map size. 1 diagnol distance unit (1 square horizontal and 1 vertical) is counted as 1,5. To recalculate the constant for other difficultys share the upkeep by 422 (the upkeep given in the small upkeep table for different difficultys) and amplify it by the distance upkeep given in the table that gives different upkeeps for different difficultys. (the same goes for different map sizes)
    3. The difficulty scale that amplifys distance upkeep affects number of city upkeep equelly. If a city costs 2000 distance upkeep and 200 number of city upkeep (assuming these are the exact figures and not rounded) under settler difficulty the exact same city would have been 2.5 times as expensive on deity difficulty. making for 5000+500 -> 5500/turn city upkeep.
    4. Number of city upkeep is very unstable because of the rounding system, a new city that may on average increase upkeep per city (for each city) by 0.4 may actually shift it up 0.8 on average by pushing some citys over the rounding edge
    5. Number of city upkeep does not scale with city size
    6. Number of city upkeep is rounded up (and i assume this goes for almost every other commerce calculation as well), a calculated city upkeep of 1,00000001 equels 2 in civ4.
    7. The ai gets an advantage (or a 20% discount) on his city upkeep on emperor difficulty. (i preassume this discount grows on higher difficultys)
    8. The ai gets a severe extra charge (75%) on his city upkeep on settler difficulty compared to players.
    9. Civic upkeep is only affected by your total population and the individual upkeep cost
    10. Civic upkeep for no upkeep is none, low upkeep costs nothing extra, medium 50% extra and high upkeep 100% extra
    11. Civic upkeep is only affected by the total population and the kind of civics you have (and not the amount of citys you own)
    12. One low upkeep civic on deity difficulty costs 0,016 commerce per population and 0,008 on settler difficulty.
    13. To more accuratly calculate civic upkeep deduct 8 population from the civic calculations for government, 9 for legal and so forth untill the religion civic. (from left to right)
    14. Inflation amplifys all expenses, meaning that your empire gradually becomes more and more expensive not the matter what you try to do against it. When reducing costs keep inflation in mind because the game does not automaticly show you the total cost reduction effects.
    15. The organized trait reduces civic upkeep to 0 instead of 2 on emperor difficulty. (at the start)
    16. City & Civic upkeep and particularily number of city city upkeep is not exact rocket science, number of city upkeep has the tendency to behave very randomly.
    Distance upkeep on emperor difficulty (10 tiles away) for different map sizes for a max size city

    Duel -> 442
    Tiny -> 434
    Small -> 380
    Standard -> 347
    Large -> 298
    Huge -> 268

    Distance upkeep on duel sized maps with different difficultys (10 tiles away from capitol) for a max size city

    Deity -> 466
    Immortal -> 466
    Emperor -> 442
    Monarch -> 419
    Prince -> 396
    Noble -> 349
    Warlord -> 303
    Chieftan -> 256
    Settler -> 209

    Civic upkeep (5x low upkeeps) for 1000 population
    Deity/Immortal/Emperor -> 397
    Monarch -> 377
    Prince -> 357
    Noble -> 317
    Warlord -> 277
    Chieftan -> 237
    Settler -> 197

    Trading Route Profits:
    1. Type (road/river/ocean/etc) of connection does not matter
    2. The commerce generated by a route for a city is only affected by its own size and distance from the target city, provided the target city is over the size of 7.
    3. The distance factor is not affected by how long an imaginary trader will have to travel inbetween destinations.
    4. A trading route from a city which is twice the size of a city with the same trading route will reap double profit compared to the smaller city
    5. A trading route with twice the distance of another trading route will reap twice as much profit
    6. Vertical and Horizontal distance is 1 square (per square), diagnoal 1.5 squares (for trading route calculations).
    7. A city of size 6-7 will incur a 25% reduction to the profit gained from INCOMING trading routes (trading routes that other citys have with it). im not sure about outgoing. size 4-5 incurs 50% and size 2-3 75%. size 1 reduces trade to 1 commerce.
    8. (on huge maps) one square distance with 1 population equels to 0.00266~ commerce. this means you need a distance of 375 squares to generate the base 1 commerce, or 25 squares for a size 15 city.
    9. Foreign trading routes generate roughly 2.43 times more commerce then internal ones.
    10. No trading routes can be erected with closed borders civs (civs with closed borders are an economical mountain to your trading routes)
    11. Trading routes will always generate atleast 1 commerce.
    12. Trading route are only limited in how many can go out to a city and not and how a city can receive (altough the city with 50 incoming trades doesnt get any benefit from it)
    13. Trading routes are not mutual, a trading route from paris to berlin is not a trading route from berlin to paris. the other side does not get any direct benefits from trading routes.
    14. Computer players do not get a more profit from trade, on higher (or lower) difficultys.

    current trading route profit formula
    Profit (in commerce/turn) = Distance*Citysize*ForeignF*MapsizeF*SizeF

    Distance = Distance in squares, horizontally and vertically squares are counted one by one, diagnoal distance by 1.5.
    Citysize = City size, not much more to say.
    ForeignF(actor) = if the trading route connects to another civs city it will generate 2.4 times more commerce
    MapsizeF(actor) = the map's size
    SizeF(actor) = city size 2-3 gives a factor of 0,25, size 4-5 0,50 6-7 0,75 and size 8+ 1,00.

    the trading route profit distance factor (MapsizeFactor) differs per size of map
    1pop*1distance=
    huge: 0.002667
    duel: 0.006172

    Great People Facts:
    Great people take more and more great people points each time one is born, here i will try to ellaborate on the aspects of breeding great people.
    great person base cost 60 increasing at 60 per birth.
    birth of 600 costing great person increases the cost per birth increacement to 120
    birth of 1800 costing great person increases the cost per birth increacement to 180
    birth of 3600 costing great person increases the cost per birth increacement to 240
    birth of 6000 costing great person increases the cost per birth increacement to 300
    birth of 9000 costing great person increases the cost per birth increacement to 360

    it minimally takes 900 Great People Points to generate 5 great people, 3300 for 10, 8100 for 15, 15900 for 20 and so forth.
    the above numbers need to be shared by 60 and multiplied by 100 to get the numbers for normal game speed, by 150 for epic and 300 for marathon.

    Great scientists produce 1503 Beakers for one tech, all others 1002. This is scaled with game speed. (if a tech costs 3 great people it will cost 3 great people on all game speeds)

    The following is the sequence in which great people will prefer to discover techs, the first tech on the list gets the great person's attention first, then the 2nd and so forth. if you can for example not research Monarchy in the great prophet example below you can instead research writing, with a great prophet.
    Great Prophet:
    Mysticism -> Meditation -> Polytheism -> Priesthood -> Civil Service -> Monarchy -> Writing -> Code of Law -> Philosophy -> Alphabet -> Literature -> Music -> Drama -> Paper
    Printing Press -> Education -> Liberalism -> Calender -> Masonry -> Monotheism -> Theocracy
    Divine Right -> Animal Husbandry -> Construction

    Great Scientist:
    Writing -> Mathemetics -> The Wheel -> Alphabet -> Agriculture -> Masonry -> Gunpowder ->
    Fishing -> Sailing -> Calendar -> Combustion -> Plastics -> Mining -> Bronze Working -> Iron Working
    Metal Casting -> Machinery -> Optics -> Astronomy -> Meditation -> Philosophy -> Drama -> Music
    Civil Service -> Paper -> Education -> Printing Press -> Scientific Method -> Physics
    Electricity -> Fission -> Flight -> Liberalism -> Radio -> Computers -> Fiber Optics -> Fusion
    Democracy -> Communism -> Economics -> Corporation -> Hunting -> Archery -> Animbal Husbandry
    Construction -> Engineering -> Chemistry -> Biology -> Medicine -> Ecology -> Refrigeration
    Genetics -> Robotics -> Monotheism -> Theology -> Mass Media -> Horseback Riding -> Replaceable Parts
    Steam Power -> Rifling -> Rocketry -> Satellites -> Composites -> Artillery

    Great Artist:
    Radio -> Mass Media -> Mysticism ->Polytheism -> Meditation -> Priesthood -> Monarchy -> Writing -> Alphabet -> Literature -> Drama -> Music -> Philosophy -> Pottery
    Astronomy -> Astronomy -> Computers -> Feudalism -> Fishing -> Sailing -> Biology
    Masonry -> Monotheism -> Theology -> Divine Right -> Paper -> Printing Press
    Education -> Liberalism -> Communism -> Civil Service -> Nationalism -> Military Tradition
    Constitution -> Democracy -> Guilds -> Fascism -> Hunting -> Archery -> Animal Husbandry
    Horseback Riding -> Bronze Working -> Metal Casting -> Construction

    Great Merchant:
    Mining -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Metal Casting -> Sailing -> Paper -> Industrialism -> Monarchy
    Civil Service -> Mass Media -> Agriculture -> Writing -> Mathemetics -> Currency -> Code of Laws -> Flight -> Machinery -> Guilds -> Banking -> Economics -> Printing Press
    Replaceable Parts -> Satellites -> Mysticism -> Priesthood -> Divine Right -> Nationalism -> Constitution -> Corporation -> Fascism -> Calendar -> Scientific Method -> Medicine
    Refrigeration -> Horseback Riding -> Compass -> Steam Power -> Railroad

    Great Engineer:
    Mining -> The Wheel -> Masonry -> Bronze Working -> Iron Working -> Gunpowder
    Priesthood -> Monarchy -> Feudalism -> Code of Laws -> Agriculture -> Animal Husbandry -> Civil Service
    Nationalism -> Constitution -> Pottery -> Pottery -> Metal Casting -> Machinery -> Guilds -> Optics
    Scientific Method -> Communism -> Physics -> Electricity -> Fission -> Ecology -> Medicine -> Refrigeration
    Computers -> Genetics -> Divine Right -> Fishing -> Mathemetics -> Construction -> Engineering
    Chemistry -> Steel -> Calendar -> Currency -> Banking -> Replaceable Parts -> Steampower -> Railroads
    Combustion -> Economics -> Corporation -> Assembly Line -> Industrialism -> Fascism -> Plastics
    Robotics -> Flight -> Fiber optics -> Fusion -> Hunting -> Horseback Riding -> Rifling

    Other facts and observations:
    1. Units & buildings rushed with universal suffrage get their cost decreased by your hammer production bonus (the % you get extra from forges for example) gets amplified). It appears to be bugged as such that it will give an undetermined % discount compared to % bonus.
    2. Difficulty does not affect the cost of rushing a unit
    3. If a unit or building already has been build partially it will cost half the hammers to rush (by slavery of gold)
    4. Drafting a military unit causes a city to get 3 extra unhappy faces (for 10 turns), if you draft another unit after that another 3 unhappy faces are added, 10 turns after the first unit was drafted 3 unhappy faces will be deducted and you will have to wait another 10 turns for the 2nd 3 unhappy faces to also disappear. (normal game speed)
    5. This means if you had drafted 3 mechanized infantrys in 3 turns you get 9 unhappy faces, 6 unhappy after 10 turns, 3 after 20 and none after 30. (normal game speed)
    6. Slavery unhappyness works in a similar fashion as drafting
    7. Heriditary rule can be combined with nationhood (and slavery) to counteract the negative effect of drafting (and slavery) untill it wears off. (be carefull with unit upkeep, though.)
    8. The unhappyness debuff of slavery and drafting dont combine, altough they can affect a city simultaneously.
    9. All units untill infantry take 1 population to draft. Infantry takes 2 population and mechanized infantry takes 3.
    10. Slavery is not affected by forges, factorys, power or ironworks.
    11. Forest chops net you 30 production if they are next to or inside the fat cross of the nearest city, these DO amplify with all production boosting effects (forges or special resources for example). (normal game speed)
    12. Once a square is under another civs borders it will take more culture to take it back then it would have to keep it.
    13. Great people can discover techs, either by completely funding their cost or partly. All techs under the cost can be researched instantly (altough religion techs take 1 extra to found a religion for you). A great person (normal game speed) can generate 1002 beakers on an instant or 1503 if he is a great scientist.
    14. Great people dont appear to be capable of discovering techs on deity difficulty.
    15. Normal game speed is the standard game speed, quick goes 50% as fast, epic goes 50% as slow and marathon 200% as slow as normal game speed. (concepts like slavery/great people techs get scaled with speed so a unit that costs 2 population will always cost 2 population)
    16. On prince and above difficultys the ai gets discounts to the food required to grow citys, produce units & buildings, civic city & unit upkeep, techs research cost and probably more. It also gets health/happyness bonusses on these difficultys (compared to the player).
    17. The ai always gets a massive discount on the cost of upgrading their units (except maybe on settler difficulty).
    18. Mines have a chance of finding resources while they are worked, this chance is by far the biggest if they are worked inbetween 100ad-1000ad but discoveries can also occur during other periods. Discovery chance is affected by how many types of resources you can see (cant have a mine randomly discover iron untill you have the tech). The type of random resource is not determined by what you already have. Discoveries are usually limited to 1-2 resources per city and occur infrequently (not much more then 3 times over the period of a whole game).
    [*]For more accurate info about hurrying see another article <The fact about hurry production cost (a bug?)>http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145687

    last edited on 2:36pm
    5th of Februrary 2006
     
  2. spiceant

    spiceant Warlord

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    Preserved to be subjected to spiceant at a point in the future
     
  3. spiceant

    spiceant Warlord

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    Preserved to absorb the blow of spiceants exploding ego
     
  4. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    looks intersting. i'll try to remember this for my future games.
     
  5. Qitai

    Qitai .

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    The above three facts are not correct. Please see the other thread on hurry production bug for more info.
     
  6. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Did you try it yourself?
     
  7. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    As Qitai said, not correct.

    Example:
    On an Epic game, I had production multipliers of +125% in a city for forge and access to a resource. A slave rush will usually give 45 hammers per pop point for Epic. Each pop point used to rush generated AT LEAST 100 hammers. I expect it was 45 * (1 + 1.25) = 101.25 (not sure how it's rounded).
     
  8. Qitai

    Qitai .

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    I thought you did read the formula I posted in the other thread since you have corrected one of my calculation error? :confused:
     
  9. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    I believe that some of the facts stated in this thread are correct, and the contradictory facts in the Hurry Production thread

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3665201#post3665201

    are wrong. I didn't check everything in that thread myself; perhaps I should have.

    One really major fact is that Forges, etc., do seem to affect gold rushing. (This must be known to some people, as it makes a tremendous difference in late-game play. I've never played a Civ4 game that lasted that long, myself.)
     
  10. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    It may be a bug but I have seen a counter-example to this (see screenshot). It would seem here that the clearing of a forest will give hammers to Mecca rather than Damascus which is the closest city. I have no idea why.

    Note I am not disputing that forest chops get the production boosting effects but rather that the city that gets the hammers may not always be the closest city.

     
  11. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    I think it's because both cities are considered to be at distance 4. (The Firaxis distance computation seems to round distance down to an integer.) And I don't know exactly how the tiebreak works among two cities at the same distance, but I'm not surprised if it doesn't depend on the half-point of extra distance.
     
  12. Qitai

    Qitai .

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    The formula in that thread (not the original poster to that thread) I posted is correct as far as my test and actual in-game usage experience are concern. The three items I highlighted are items items which are not correct. E.g. New production cost 50% more, not 2 times more as indicated by this post.
     
  13. Qitai

    Qitai .

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    From my observation, the rule is as follows:

    1) Distance is always round down
    2) Distance of 3 gives max hammers (This means you gain max hammers at a range greater than the fat cross since it includes those at 3.5 distance)
    3) If a tile is worked on by one city, that city gets the hammer (regardless of distance)
    4) If it is still a distance tie (after rounding), then the oldest city gets the hammer

    So, in your example, both city are at the same distance and since Mecca is older, it gets the hammer. Hope this helps.
     
  14. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Thanks Qitia and DaviddesJ. You hit the nail on the head. All I need to do is change my definition of 'distance' or 'closest' to that used in CIV world and then it isn't a bug at all. :)


    "Hence, by example, it is shown that Pythagoras' Theorem does not hold in CIV world." :crazyeye:


    I had observed this effect several times before btw but never really paid much attention to why it happened.
     
  15. colony

    colony Slow Typer

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    Civic upkeep is affected by the number of cities you control, as well as your total population. The actual formulae used in the calculation are different for each type of Civic, shown below:

    Government civics upkeep:
    [D * [ O * ( [ P * (N-8) ] + [ C * (M-1) ] ) ] ]
    Legal civics upkeep:
    [D * [ O * ( [ P * (N-9) ] + [ C * M ] ) ] ]
    Labor civics upkeep:
    [D * [ O * ( [ P * (N-10) ] + [ C * (M+1) ] ) ] ]
    Economy civics upkeep:
    [D * [ O * ( [ P * (N-11) ] + [ C * (M+2) ] ) ] ]
    Religion civics upkeep:
    [D * [ O * ( [ P * (N-12) ] + [ C * (M+3) ] ) ] ]

    where D is the difficulty modifier, O is a factor for the Organised trait (either 0.5 or 1). P is the population modifier, 0.08/0.12/0.16 for low/medium/high upkeep civics. C is the number of cities modifier, 0.4/0.5/0.6 for low/medium/high upkeeps. N is your total population and C the number of cities. Terms between [ ... ] are rounded down.

    See this thread for the full details
     
  16. spiceant

    spiceant Warlord

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    high upkeeps are twice as expensive as low upkeeps from what i'v seen
    whereas by your explenation it is only 50% more expensive
     
  17. colony

    colony Slow Typer

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    Actually in 1.09 that was my impression too. But with the changes to the upkeeps in 1.52 low, medium and high have a more similar cost now. Me and Roland Johansen both got the values out of \XML\gameinfo\Civ4upkeepinfo.xml, and both found similar results.

    Also I didn't just pull those formulae from thin air, we've both tested them in actual games and on test maps and I haven't found any errors in them.
     
  18. spiceant

    spiceant Warlord

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    in my test game with 1 size 1000 city my low upkeep civic costs half that of the vassalage civic and caste system (medium) costs 50% more then my low upkeep.
     
  19. colony

    colony Slow Typer

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    Because of the rounding used the upkeep due to number of cities is normally a much smaller part of the total upkeep, unless you have a lot of small cities. If you do the calculations on a game near the domination limit (not forgetting difficulty modifiers)

    Actually in 1.09 the modifiers were 0.05/0.1/0.15 and 0.2/0.4/0.6, which gave even bigger differences between the different upkeeps, which I think is where my impression of the difference being less in 1.52 comes from

    Anyway, my main point is that the number of cities you control does affect your civic upkeep costs. There'd be a huge difference in cost between 250 cities with 4 pop and 1 city with 1000 pop.
     
  20. A+ombomb

    A+ombomb Actuary

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    I don't know for sure what is and isn't wrong with the tech paths for great people, but I know for a fact that artists get nationalism before any other ren era tech - and you have it listed after printing and education.
     

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