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Game is too superficial, too boring, too onesided, too imbalanced

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Qbix, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. Qbix

    Qbix Chieftain

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    Sorry for the long post.

    I just won a Harmony game on the second highest difficulty at turn 266 and I am neither playing at maximum efficiency nor with the optimal decision making. There are so many things that are missing from the game or simply to easy compared to Civ V that I find myself in need to write some thoughts down.


    Win conditions

    Essentially, all 5 win conditions are simply coming down to who has the most research points. The shift over from researching better military units directly towards upgrading them via affinity levels doesn't really change a thing, the one that gets the necessary technologies faster has the strongest military. Plus, of course, is the first who can construct the beacon or the Affinity related special buildings.

    Combine that with the complete lack of anything related to culture and diplomacy victories (or options even) and you have a game with 5 Science Victory conditions. That's really boring and turns every game into essentially the same grind.


    Military upgrades

    On one hand I like the fact that different units don't have entirely different upgrades over the course of the game as in CiV:V but what bothers me is that a single quest or technology can upgrade all units of a specific type simultaneously, globally. This can swing even matchups heavily and further manifests that research is mandatory even for warmongers. The perks are partially powerful as well so you definitely want the Affinity upgrades over anything else.


    Stations, Great People, Forts

    Stations are boring and only serve the purpose of providing someone to trade with. Wow. Sure, having "Stet Mining" around your capital is always a success but the whole system lacks depth and appeal. I still don't understand why Firaxis had to downgrade CiV to that extent. Why not turn the stations back into City-States again. Let their territory grow and let them produce military units. No need to implement the whole diplomacy victory again but at least give them SOME purpose aside from stats.

    Great People are what made the early to mid game so interesting in Civ V, therefore the lack of those is really hurting the appeal of the game imo. I mean we have specialists again, why not have Great People? The fact that we can now build Manufactories and Academies at will is essentially hurting the game since it takes away from the purpose of the Great People feature. Just take those improvements out of the game and give them back to Engineers and Scientists while simultaneously increasing the yields a bit. Due to the fictional nature of Civ:BE there should be enough room for creativity regarding name choices etc.

    Forts - where are they? I definitely miss them, gameplay- and lore-wise. More can be found below.


    Techweb and Tile Improvements

    As I already suggested, remove Academy and Manufactory from the Techweb and reintroduce Great People again. Furthermore, why don't Terrascapes give Health? Take the health away from Biowells and give it to Terrascapes. Plus, Dome improvements should also act like forts for units stationed on them.

    In addition, I would take every late game Affinity level tech out and give more importance to Affinity related tile improvements. We could implement a system where you would need a certain amount of specific improvements in relation to your number of cities in order to further progress in your Affinity. I would chose the following improvements: Biowells (with more 'harmonic' visuals) for Harmony, Dome for Purity and Array for Supremacy. That's just a suggestion of course. Plus, I think Affinity level 13 is not sufficient as a requirement for a Victory Condition. It's at a point where we don't even have unlocked the strongest military units. Maybe we should raise it to 18 or something, with the aforementioned tile improvements helping to get there.


    World Wonders

    Those could still need heavy rebalancing. Some bonuses are really sweet, but many of the late game Wonders really only have stats and that's it. Not very appealing.

    I am especially missing the Great Wall wonder. A fitting equivalent should be easy to implement (it could become a non-factor for hovering units).


    Natural Wonders

    Where? Everything is fictional, I am sure people would easily and gratefully accept Natural Wonders. Don't give them specific names, more general ones and voilĂ ! Everything is fictional, there is so much potential for beautiful visuals and interesting yields... And of course new quests surrounding them.


    The A.I.

    Oh boy. Still has the same weaknesses the Civ:V had, but since the game itself got a lot less complex the problems are even more obvious. Inefficient use of improvements, extremely dumb positioning mistakes during combat and - of course - being an integral part of the terrible dimplomacy feature just ruins the fun.

    I probably forgot some points.

    I really want to like this game because Civ:V was a ton of fun (after heavy modding), I am just frustrated that the complexity isn't on par to begin with.
     
  2. FaceUnderMask

    FaceUnderMask Chieftain

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    Not again :cry:

    If I read the atmosphere on forums correctly, most people don't want CivBE be essentially Civ5 space mod. And I'm with them in that respect.
    This 'downgrade' actually opens a way for CivBE to evolve into a game with different mechanics.
    Turning stations into CS-es is the last thing I wanna see in CivBE. You said it yourself - Stations are trading partners. I want them to become a better trading partners, with unique bonuses and mechanics. I don't want them to be essentially the same stations, but with units and borders.

    And I don't really want great people back either.

    Yes, I don't really like some stuff like simplified military, science-science-science-science/rng-domination, wonders and some other things either.

    Join the club

    Nice thread about that
     
  3. Lucius_

    Lucius_ Chieftain

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    CivBE has it's problems, even being down right dull at times. The easiest (and least creative) solution is to turn it into a CiV clone. Lots of his concerns are valid, but the "do it like CiV" solutions are not.
     
    cinattra likes this.
  4. Qbix

    Qbix Chieftain

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    I'd rather have a clone that is fun to play than something different that is simply a mess of missed potential.

    If you really think that Civ:BE should go it's own way to become good this essentially means you are ok with waiting for multiple patches, some Addons and thousands of mods, because this is essentially what made Civ V good in the end. Is it really so wrong to expect games to be good when they get released? Especially after all the experience Firaxis should have gathered with Civ V.
     
    Core7777 likes this.
  5. Brichals

    Brichals Chieftain

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    Good points. Aside from balance the game really is quite superficial.

    I guess GPs are removed because workers give tile upgrades instead of planting a GP. Ironically, I imagine future space colonies would celebrate great people a lot.

    Stations could be improved, make them more variable. Contagious outbreaks with zombies in stations, or terrorists, or alien outbreaks. How you deal with these things would better be in line with affinity choices than the same boring quest lines.
     
  6. a space oddity

    a space oddity Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    IMHO it is far too early to conclude that the game is superficial. From what I read here on the forums people play this game in many different ways, which is promising.
     
  7. FaceUnderMask

    FaceUnderMask Chieftain

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    Yes, I'm pretty much ok with that.
    It's not wrong to expect games to be good when they get released. It's wrong to think that there is a single definition of 'good' or 'bad'. Things like that are subjective.
    Yes, Firaxis should've gathered plenty of experience, but I think they want to escape from making just a Civ5 clone. It's kinda hard, since you eventually run out of ideas.
    Personally I think CivBE in a release state compared to Civ5 in a release state is a good improvement.
     
  8. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Temporary Pattern...still recognizably human...

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    The one thing that BE really needs to be less superficial is meaningful diplomacy. I thought vanilla Civ V was bad in this regard, but BE is even worse (which is almost mpressive). There is virtually no reason at all to even contact other leaders except for very rare cases when you need resources. The favors are an OK idea terribly implemented. It's just another (pretty worthless) currency to be ripped off in.
     
  9. Gort

    Gort Chieftain

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    So play at the highest difficulty?

    This is true, but it was pretty much the same thing in Civ 5 except for a couple of outliers like the Religious Sites Tourism Victory tactic. Science is King in Civilisation games.

    They're called nodes now.

    Yeah, check out the Empowered Wonders mod.

    Seems like a natural DLC choice.
     
  10. EricTheGreat12

    EricTheGreat12 Chieftain

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    Don't start with those damn DLCs. Like cmon ... natural Wonders as a DLC ?!? Clearly you don't understand that it's Natural Wonders ; they could add it for free but instead this stupid company is making a big deal about it. BE has become an absolute failure and disaster in all aspects, and them making us pay money for a stupid DLC would shame the company, considering they've done the worst with the making of BE.
     
  11. Qbix

    Qbix Chieftain

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    Wow, great. So the adjacent A.I.s attack me 5 turns earlier. Will be a totally different game with all those suddenly added features and balance changes. :crazyeye:

    Node: Provides +2 Energy and +20 HP heal for adjacent units every turn.
    Fort: +50% defensive Combat Strength for the unit on the tile
     
  12. Xenotitan

    Xenotitan Chieftain

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    I am not okay with the game being released in an unpolished state and needing to wait months for patches for this to be fixed. But that doesn't mean I'm okay with BE being Civ V either. I already own Civ V, if I wanted to play Civ V I'd load that instead of BE.
     
  13. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    Many of his points are valid. I don't agree with making things more like Civ 5 though. This game needs to be different.

    He also said he wanted the great wall back which was the single most overpowered and banned wonder in the game. Absolutely NO. Cities are already way too powerful in comparison to units. A great wall type wonder would make anyone who has it practically invincible.

    Great Wall +Laser Satellite and 50+ defense vs gunners? LMAO no Thank you! Defense is already way way too easy.
     
  14. Gort

    Gort Chieftain

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    You're complaining that the game is too easy and you haven't tried the hardest setting yet?

    It's significantly harder in my experience. The AI starting with an extra colonist makes a big difference.

    What, so farms don't exist either in this game because they don't give the exact same yield as they did in previous Civ games? Nodes fulfil the same function as forts - defensive tile improvements.
     
  15. Halbbruder

    Halbbruder Chieftain

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    Returning to similar mechanics to civ 5 is not the solution to this game. Improving victory condition types, improving stations and improving diplomacy is all this game needs towards being somewhat more fleshed out. The combat system is fine, although more naval and air diversity would be nice.
     
  16. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Chieftain

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    I'm currently following three threads about specialists, one about improving victory, one about improving mid-game, and one about both. Do we really need another general grumbling thread?
     
  17. Qbix

    Qbix Chieftain

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    That's entirely beside the point. I don't care if the AI is harder to deal with or not, the core game offers the same grind every match. If I win or lose doesn't make a difference (although I gotta admit that the AI was more of a threat in Civ V) for me, I want the game to offer more options, more distinctive choices and overall more balance.

    I was merely pointing out that someone like me, who is always astonished by awesome feats some players are able to achieve in a game like this had basically no problem scoring a good victory time while never having managed something like that on the second highest difficulty in Civ:V.

    Yeeaah... I don't think you are getting the point, so let's rather drop it.
     
  18. Gort

    Gort Chieftain

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    There are fewer difficulty settings in Beyond Earth, so beating BE on Soyuz is not equivalent to beating Civ 5 on Immortal.
     
  19. Xenotitan

    Xenotitan Chieftain

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    Yeah, I'd say Soyuz is closer to King.
     
  20. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    The last time I played Apollo was more like Prince. I haven't tried single player since the patch though.
     

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