Game of "Historical Accuracy"

[Colonel_Flagg]

So if you read my other thread, I got my first win out of over 10 games probably, which I really appreciate (winning easily is not fulfilling). I was honestly scared when I saw that REF come out of the fog, which I bet is how the Americans felt too; YOU SHOULD BE SCARED, not confident that "I got a bunch of Founding Fathers early through Bells, but the REF didn't increase because of the patch I wanted, so I have a huge amount of production and weapons and I'll win easily." When it came to the War of Independence, I employed what I think are historically accurate tactics at the scope this game is at. Some have called them gimmicky, but this is not my opinion. Here are some of the strategies I picked up from my last game.

LET THE REF OCCUPY CITIES. The British occupied Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Charleston, etc. And all they accomplished in the end was getting bogged down in them. In the game, let them occupy your cities, which comes at the cost of probably losing your most productive ones (1st colonies established on the East Coast), so, COST AND BENEFIT (more economics). Meanwhile, you should be fortified on the outskirts in DEFENSIBLE TERRAIN with INFANTRY, DRAGOONS, and ARTILLERY ALL IN ONE SQUARE. USE YOUR UNITS LIKE THEY WERE DESIGNED. In my game, I had a sort of Battle of Bunker Hill with the Green Mountain Boys.

I fortified my Infantry on the hill, used my Dragoons to strike out at units outside the city (ESPECIALLY CANNONS), and used my cannons to take out units INSIDE THE CITY. Get appropriate UPGRADES. 1 should have Medic, your Infantry should have the one for the Tile you're on, and Cannons should have the bonus against cities, then gunpowder units.

To reiterate in another way, DON'T ATTACK OR DEFEND ON OPEN TERRAIN and DON'T DEFEND YOUR CITIES (too much). The Americans were renowned for unconventional tactics in the swamps and forests and mountains, but they never fared well on open ground or in the cities.

The REF always guns for your cities, which the British thought would work too (they took the homes of the Revolution, but still lost). So eventually, through DISCIPLINE (don't get hasty and fight with bad odds. HOLD ALT AND HOVER OVER THE ENEMY UNIT TO SEE THE ODDS THAT YOUR UNIT HAS) and hard work, you will eventually reach your Battle of Yorktown with the REF holed up in their last stronghold and your Cannons pounding away at the defenses until they surrender.

One thing I do wish was in this game is the ability to capture cannons. If you retake a city from the REF that had cannons present, you should receive one free cannon. When the Americans took Fort Ticonderoga and all of their cannons, that was a major point in the war, and reflecting that would be awesome.

Secondly, DON'T PRODUCE BELLS TOO EARLY. The American Colonists had a dull sense of resentment against the crown which QUICKLY exploded into fury in a very short span of time with closely spaced events (Boston Massacre, Boston Tea Party, all of the Acts, Taxation without Representation, etc). If you produce Bells too early to get those "cool" Founding Fathers, you better make up for the increasing REF by using that bonus production to make military units. Don't complain that it's too big, because you have the production and the tactics to counter it.

This game should be hard, but it is winnable: don't let anyone tell you differently. Keep trying, and when you win, go up to the next difficulty; that'll keep the game fresh and exciting.

 

[GenocideBringer]

Good post, except 2 is slightly wrong.

It doesn't matter if you get bells early. What matters is that you don't get a huge rebel sentiment and then continue pouring bells. If your colony reaches 100% rebel sentiment and you KEEP pumping bells, you're going to get WTFHUGE REF armies. However you definitely can produce bells early as long as you monitor them and make sure that none are "wasted"

 

[Colonel_Flagg]

Hmm, I thought it worked that if you produce practically any Bells in a turn, the king will increase the REF next turn (I HATE it when the computer automates a worker to go to the Town Hall when I don't know, and the REF increases). So, you could produce Bells early and get to 50% then stop altogether, and the REF will stop increasing. BUT, when your population increases, you'll go below 50%, so you'll have to produce more Bells, thus increasing the REF again. Over the long run, wouldn't this result in an REF larger than doing it in one shot?

If they're equivalent, than it is something to consider. I don't mind the micromanagement (RTS player), but economically in the long run, it seems like you'll get less benefit for more cost. And if they're equivalent, than producing Political Points seems like a useless option, so I don't think they are.

 

[Alsn]

(I HATE it when the computer automates a worker to go to the Town Hall when I don't know, and the REF increases).

Hint: Always "deemphasize" bell production in your cities and only ever manually assign colonists to your town halls. That way the computer will never automatically assign anyone to produce bells.

 

[Shakauvm]

Good post, except 2 is slightly wrong.

It doesn't matter if you get bells early. What matters is that you don't get a huge rebel sentiment and then continue pouring bells. If your colony reaches 100% rebel sentiment and you KEEP pumping bells, you're going to get WTFHUGE REF armies. However you definitely can produce bells early as long as you monitor them and make sure that none are "wasted"

Oh... it's quite possible to sit at 30% Revolutionary Fevor (with statesmen all working full time) and accomplish nothing but making the REF exponentially huge.

 

[r_rolo1]

This game has no Portugal and it gives the american flag to every rebeling colony, regardless of what civ you came. Any claim of historical accuracy stops right there, unfortunately

 

[Colonel_Flagg]

That's why historical accuracy is in quotes. It's just in regard to combat and strategy in gameplay, not aesthetics.

 

[jacyp]

r_rolo1, I think the game sins with the countries present.

England, Portugal and Spain are the 3 MUST HAVE countries in any game that tells the history of the great sales and the independence of the colonies. Holand and France did war with... who? France aided the americans at the end of their independence war and, hey, the whole "independence" idea was BORN in france, so it makes really no sense in having france on this game. Holand stablished some colonies but they were expelled by brasil/portugal force, and the rest of their few colonies north of south america did no war too. Holland was always a civilized country with no aptness for war, but for business.

I miss Portugal very much in this game.

But back to the topic, I consider your ideas very useful Colonel_Flagg, but as you said, it requires discipline and patience to see some of your cities being taken without desperation and keeping the coolness necessary to take advantage of the fact that they will now protect that settlement and have less units on open field.

Anyway, congrats on your victory, I'm hoping to get mine soon.

Best regards.

 

[Krupo]

LET THE REF OCCUPY CITIES. The British occupied Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Charleston, etc. And all they accomplished in the end was getting bogged down in them. In the game, let them occupy your cities, which comes at the cost of probably losing your most productive ones (1st colonies established on the East Coast), so, COST AND BENEFIT (more economics).

You know what I love about having the REF take over coastal cities?

1. The evacuation of the population and raw materials itself is funny (RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY!)

2. The AI will dock their Man-o-War in town. Right when you're two cells away with a death stack of 10 cannons.

Oh yes.

 

[Antilogic]

Hmm, I thought it worked that if you produce practically any Bells in a turn, the king will increase the REF next turn (I HATE it when the computer automates a worker to go to the Town Hall when I don't know, and the REF increases). So, you could produce Bells early and get to 50% then stop altogether, and the REF will stop increasing. BUT, when your population increases, you'll go below 50%, so you'll have to produce more Bells, thus increasing the REF again. Over the long run, wouldn't this result in an REF larger than doing it in one shot?

If they're equivalent, than it is something to consider. I don't mind the micromanagement (RTS player), but economically in the long run, it seems like you'll get less benefit for more cost. And if they're equivalent, than producing Political Points seems like a useless option, so I don't think they are.

You are basically right. Recruit a few Elder Statesmen, make sure your colonies all have printing presses and newspapers, and then start one massive push for independence. Around this time, try and recruit the Liberty Bell founding fathers, like Patrick Henry, Samuel Adams, Ben Franklin (I know there are more but I am forgetting them at the moment)...and you will find your Revolution is not unwinnable.

It took me a couple failed tries to get the hang of the game and figure out what I need to build where, but I'm finally winning...on Pioneer. Time to move up to Explorer and see if I can thrash another king.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

That's why historical accuracy is in quotes. It's just in regard to combat and strategy in gameplay, not aesthetics.

"Not esthetics?" Don't you think it's just a little insensitive to the Latin Americans, the Dutch and the French to let them be repesented by the US flag?

Also, the Latin American revolutionary experience was a bit different from the one in North America. They managed to secure a hold on Buenos Aires and Cartagena, and although they nearly lost Cartagena to the Spaniards at one point, it didn't happen. Bolivar rescued the city in time.

I do think the game focuses too much on the American experience.

 

[Pod]

I do think the game focuses too much on the American experience.

As did every other Sid Meier game. Think about the hilarious nature of including the American civilization (whose nuique units are always rubbish modern ones) alongside the Ancient Egyptians.

Also consider how "democracy" is pretty much the best government choice in virtually all his games.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Also consider how "democracy" is pretty much the best government choice in virtually all his games.

I generally prefer Proportional Representation for the happiness and research bonuses.

 

[Colonel_Flagg]

"Not esthetics?" Don't you think it's just a little insensitive to the Latin Americans, the Dutch and the French to let them be repesented by the US flag?

Also, the Latin American revolutionary experience was a bit different from the one in North America. They managed to secure a hold on Buenos Aires and Cartagena, and although they nearly lost Cartagena to the Spaniards at one point, it didn't happen. Bolivar rescued the city in time.

I do think the game focuses too much on the American experience.

I don't believe I gave an opinion on sensitivity and fairness in my post, it's about the GAMEPLAY. Gameplay is the more important element to me; a game with awesome graphics and aesthetics but poor gameplay will never last, while a game with great gameplay and relatively poor graphics will last much longer (i.e. Starcraft).

The developers should focus first on gameplay mechanics, then art design. For example, if I remember correctly, in Civ 4 didn't all units look basically the same except for the unique units. And now in BTS a Swordsman from an Asian civ looks different than one from a European civ? Any aesthetic qualities can be easily patched or put in an expansion, but if the gameplay sucks and sales are bad, it will never get that far.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I don't believe I gave an opinion on sensitivity and fairness in my post, it's about the GAMEPLAY. Gameplay is the more important element to me; a game with awesome graphics and aesthetics but poor gameplay will never last, while a game with great gameplay and relatively poor graphics will last much longer (i.e. Starcraft).

The developers should focus first on gameplay mechanics, then art design. For example, if I remember correctly, in Civ 4 didn't all units look basically the same except for the unique units. And now in BTS a Swordsman from an Asian civ looks different than one from a European civ? Any aesthetic qualities can be easily patched or put in an expansion, but if the gameplay sucks and sales are bad, it will never get that far.

I maintain that they should have done that in the first place. You talk about "aesthetics" as if they smell bad. We are simply talking about their choice of animations, and about the extremely drab Europe screen. Hardly a Herculean task to do those better, I should think. They were just sloppy, as they definitely were wtih many of the game mechanics as well.

 

[David Webb]

England, Portugal and Spain are the 3 MUST HAVE countries in any game that tells the history of the great sales and the independence of the colonies. Holand and France did war with... who? France aided the americans at the end of their independence war and, hey, the whole "independence" idea was BORN in france, so it makes really no sense in having france on this game. Holand stablished some colonies but they were expelled by brasil/portugal force, and the rest of their few colonies north of south america did no war too. Holland was always a civilized country with no aptness for war, but for business.

Try to think BEFORE you talk crap.

France had a massive colonial enterprise; Canada, Louisiana (1/3 of modern USA), numerous Caribbean Islands, some bits in Suriname, and that is just in the Americas. They had a significant presence in India and Oceania. They also had vast quantities of land in Africa and Indochina in the 19th century.

Holland had a good number of colonies too. They had some Caribbean islands, some footholds in Brazil and North America, and they ultimately wrestled Indonesia away from the Portuguese.


I think the Portuguese are great to include, but dont belittle the already included.

 

[Colonel_Flagg]

Ok, we'll agree to disagree, as much as I hate that term, but no more posts about this. This is the STRATEGY AND TIPS forum, not General Discussion. This is about "historical accuracy" in relation to STRATEGY AND TIPS, not the game design in general. Another thread can be made about how inaccurate the flags and nation selection are.