1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Game of thrones: Final Season: Winter finally arrives....

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Birdjaguar, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. ulyssesSgrant

    ulyssesSgrant Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2019
    Messages:
    241
    :lol: I can't believe GRRM stole that idea from you before you even existed! That is really the exact same premise, you deserve royalties for this.
     
  2. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    22,432
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    I'm filing a lawsuit in Donald J Trump Court as we speak.
     
  3. Colon

    Colon King

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Messages:
    642
  4. AdamCrock

    AdamCrock Polish Pudding

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    3,959
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Aimee's closet :)
    Don't want to go OT too much on this but I'll just say the policy of uterly destroying nations was rather Hitler's sick/mad idea so I still say it's because "Hitler's madness" ;) He used psychological tricks in his speaches to justify them and sway the masses to make them legit.(edit: his mad ideas that is )

    Wonder if Dany gonna try to justify her decision for killing innocents :think:
    She already tried to do it beforehand when she said something like "I want to free the people from future tyrants, and if they don't want it they can die alongside their ruler" (not an exact qoute - just from my memory) It was when Tyrion explained to her that bells would mean capitualtion.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  5. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    22,432
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    Danny-Rees Taggy-Ren, mother of fire sneks, something something
     
  6. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,259
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    Actually it was because of the ghetto's revolt.
    But even if it were about Hitler's madness, the guy had been about genocide for quite a long time, not a sudden switch over two days.
     
  7. ulyssesSgrant

    ulyssesSgrant Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2019
    Messages:
    241
    So sudden, so unexpected, no inconsistent!

    Spoiler :

    From reddit:

    • 106 - Viserys, after seeing how much the Dothraki love Daenerys, becomes jealous and tries to run away saying “Who can rule without wealth or fear of love.” (Daenerys well echo this sentiment in 804 and 805)

    • 204 – Daenerys “When my dragons are grown… we will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”

    • 206 – Daenerys “I will take what is mine with fire and blood.”

    • 207 - Cersei Lannister “Half the Targaryens went mad, didn't they? What's the saying? "Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin."

    • 210 – Daenerys has a vision of a destroyed throne room. She reaches out to the throne but never touches it.

    • 303 – Daenerys when speaking about her brother Rhaegar “…he was not the last dragon.”

    • 404 - Daenerys executes 163 Meereenese noblemen. In 406 we learn some of these men were innocent. Daenerys shows absolutely no regret.

    • 405 – Daenerys speaking with Jorah. “You counseled me against rashness once in Qarth. I didn’t listen. It all worked out well.”

    • 407 – Jorah tells Daenerys “The masters treated men like beasts, as you said. Herding the masters into pens and slaughtering them by the thousands is also treating men like beasts.” Reminding her “I wouldn't be here to help you if Ned Stark had done to me what you want to do to the masters of Yunkai.”

    • 407 – Daenerys “They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one.

    • 505 – Daenerys executes an innocent Meereenese nobleman for the sole purpose of intimidating the other nobles.

    • 505 – Daenerys reopens the fighting pits allowing for innocent men to kill one another for entertainment.

    • 508 – Daenerys “I’m not going to stop the wheel. I’m going to break the wheel.”

    • 604 – Daenerys murders the leaders of the Dothraki for the sole purpose of consolidating power.

    • 606 – Dario to Daenerys “You weren’t made to sit on a chair in a palace. You’re a conquer, Daenerys Stormborn.

    • 606 – Daenerys to the Dothraki “Will you kill my enemies in their iron suits and tear down their stone houses?”

    • 609 – Speaking about the masters Daenerys swears to “Kill every one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt.” Tyrion responds “You once told me you knew what your father was. Did you know his plans for King’s Landing?” Daenerys “This is entirely different!” Tyrion “You’re talking about destroying cities. It’s not entirely different.”

    • 702 – Yara Greyjoy, Olenna Tyrell, and Ellaria Sand all try to convince Daenerys to use her dragons on King’s Landing. Tyrion convinces her to do otherwise. (This is important as Tyrion’s plans fail, and his repeated failures show Daenerys there’s no other option)

    • 702 - Olenna Tyrell “Commoners and nobles are all children really. They won’t obey you unless they fear you.” And later. “You’re a dragon. Be a dragon.”

    • 704 – After news of her army’s defeat at Casterly Rock, Daenerys questions Tyrion’s plans and his loyalty.

    • 704 – Daenerys “Enough with the clever plans. I have 3 large dragons. I’m going to fly them to the red keep.”

    • 705 – Daenerys executes Randal and Dickon Tarly when imprisonment was a perfectly viable option.

    • 705 – Tyrion “Daenerys is not her father.” Varys “And she never will be with the right counsel. You need to find a way to make her listen.”

    • 705 – Tyrion devises a convoluted plan to capture a wight to convince Cersi to help fight the night King. Over the rest of seasons 7 and 8 this plan goes horribly wrong and results in the death of a dragon. The failure of this plan further degrades Daenerys’ trust of Tyrion.

    • 801 – Lyanna Mormon publically confronts Jon Snow about giving up his crown and swearing allegiance to Daenerys. This is the beginning of Daenerys’ realization that she has no love in Westeros.

    • 802 – Daenerys is angry that Tyrion’s advice about Cersei turned out to be wrong. Saying “Either you are a traitor or a fool.” And “Cersei still sits on the throne. If you can’t help me take it back I will find another Hand who can.”

    • 803 – Jorah is killed in battle. He has proven to be one of the few advisors Daenerys had that tried to temper her impulses.

    • 804 – Daenerys sees people praising Jon Snow and becomes jealous.

    • 804 – Tormund “What kind of person climbs on a ******* dragon? A madman, or a king!” (I’d like to point out when Tormund says “madman” it cuts to a shot of Dany, and when he says “or a king!” it cuts to Jon)

    • 804 – Speaking about Jorah to Jon, Daenerys “He loved me and I couldn’t love him back. Not the way he wanted. Not the way I love you.” (Her love for Jon is not returned in 805)

    • 804 – Daenerys “I saw them gathered around you. I saw the way they looked at you. I know that look. So many people have looked at me that way but never here.”

    • 804 – Varys “These are the people you came here to protect. Do not destroy the city you came to save…” Daenerys “I’m here to save the world fromy tyrants… and I will serve it, no matter the cost.”

    • 804 - Daenerys “Speaking to Cersei will not prevent a slaughter. But perhaps its good the people see Daenerys Stormborn made every effort to avoid bloodshed and Cersei Lannister refused. They should know whom to blame when the sky falls down on them.” (We should note she is directly talking about “The People” here)

    • 804 – Missandei’s final words before her execution. “Dracarys”.

    • 805 – Varys “They say every time a Targaryen is born, the Gods toss a coin and the world holds its breath.”

    • 805 – Daenerys speaking to Jon “Far more people in Westeros love you than love me. I don’t have love here. I only have fear.”

    • 805 – After a half hearted kiss with Jon, Daenerys says “Alright then. Let it be fear.” (Echoing what Viserys said in 106)

    • 805 – Tyrion “The people who live there, they’re not your enemies. They’re innocents.” Daenerys “Your sister knows how to use their enemies weaknesses against them. That’s what she thinks our mercy is. Our mercy is our strength. Our mercy toward future generations who will not be held hostage by a tyrant.” (She’s all but saying she’s not going to show mercy and will butcher everyone in the city)

    • 805 – Daenerys to Tyrion. “Next time your fail me will be the last time you fail me.”
     
    Kaitzilla and Synsensa like this.
  8. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    22,432
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    No, the ghetto uprising was a couple of years earlier and wiped out relatively easily. You're thinking of the Warsaw uprising, when the Polish underground tried to throw the Germans out of the city.
     
  9. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,259
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    Ah, yes, good catch. I tend to mix both in my mind.
     
  10. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    31,788
    Location:
    Scotland
    I don't really understand why people are calling Daenerys' actions a "descent into madness". If she was mad, she's been since since season 4.

    Daenerys' experience of rule to date has been not only of autocracy, but of divine kingship. She has come to expect not only the submission or even loyalty of her subjects, but their abject submission. That is the only way she knows how to related to the populace, high or low, the only way she knows how to understand obedience. For Daenerys, there is only adoration and hostility, with nothing in between. Anyone who does not love her is her enemy. When she complains that she is not loved in Westeros, she doesn't mean that she doesn't have the respect of the populace, she means that they do not worship her as she had come to expect. Wasn't she there to "liberate" them from the Baratheon usurpers? Shouldn't she be adored in the same way as those she liberated from the Masters of Meereen? Even in the sight of her dragons, the mark of her divine favour, the tangible proof of her destiny, inspired repulsion rather than awe. For Daenerys, both in Meereen and King's Landing acted as a mirror, but where the former showed the image of a saviour-queen, the latter showed a monstrous conqueror, so it had to be destroyed.

    The moment Daenerys cracked wasn't on the walls of King's Landing. It was in Mereen, with the liberated slaves crowded around her like she was some sort of messiah. That's what broke her, that was her "descent into madness". We just couldn't see it until Westeros, and she encountered people who had no reason to think of her as anything other than another warlord. That's when she went bonkeroony.
     
    Mise and Arwon like this.
  11. Sofista

    Sofista card-carrying

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,627
    Location:
    Trento, Italy
    So please let's get this straight. The people of King's Landing had the power to make the decision to surrender? At which point?

    Did the civilians of King's Landing have any say in how Daenerys kept her dragons safe up north (perhaps northeners did not give enough support. Bunker down, Winterfell!), or planning the defense against her assault? Exactly what type of casualties justify the winners wholesale slaughtering the losers?
    To once again look at history, the most recent example of family matters to start a war I can come up with is Franz Ferdinand. Emperor Franz Joseph declared war on Serbia for it. Whether one agrees or not with it, at no point he called for the extermination of Serbians.

    It's never been a democracy, and Daenerys knows it well. Had she beelined for Cersei's presumable position no one would have faulted her much.

    If only it had been something resembling a popular riot. But it was a palace coup - and she has had Jaime at her mercy.
     
  12. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,259
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    You mean she razed cities and indulged in deliberate and systematic slaughter of unrelated civilians since S4 ?
    Man, I must have missed a lot of episodes.
     
  13. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    35,452
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Well here is one solution that might happen on Sunday:


    Link to video.
     
  14. ulyssesSgrant

    ulyssesSgrant Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2019
    Messages:
    241
    Correct.
     
  15. Yeekim

    Yeekim Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,002
    Location:
    Estonia
    You not seeing how her burning of the city was not senseless comic book villainy but rather a logical, calculated move speaks highly of your charatcer, but honestly, @ulyssesSgrant has made an entirely convincing argument here.

    She is not a comic book villain, she did not burn the city "for lulz", but because she realized - probably correctly - that regardless of the city's ostensible surrender, her only remaining hope to actually keep the throne in a medium-term perspective is to set a truly horryfying example.
    Her kindness and empathy have been struggling against her selfishness and hunger for power since the very beginning. When she saw no more room for a compromise, the latter won. Not because she "went mad", but because it turned out she was ultimately more selfish and power-hungry than kind. And we all feel angry, because we were hoping against hope her inner conflict would end the other way.
    Well, in fairness let's also keep in mind the resources either has had to work with, shall we?
    Jon: an albino mutt and a frozen d*ck.
    Daenerys: three dragons.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    ulyssesSgrant likes this.
  16. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    54,994
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    "Ah, Dan-vader"
    "You have failed me for the last time, Tyrion"
     
    Kaitzilla likes this.
  17. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    8,540
    Location:
    Chicago
    A good case, but they really tried to make her look a tad mad while doing it. But others may have seen something different.
     
  18. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    17,185
    Location:
    the golf course
    Jon doesn't want the job, let Tyrion be king... He probably deserves it the most
     
    AdamCrock likes this.
  19. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    16,308
    Location:
    Tir ná Lia
    Hey, give credit where credit's due. A few other people here have made the argument that Dany's razing of King's Landing is partly a political move made out of desperation :nono:
     
  20. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    31,788
    Location:
    Scotland
    What specific detail in my post do you disagree with?
     

Share This Page