Game of Thrones Season 5 discussion thread

They didn't specify which incest she is charged with though. It could have been just with Lancel.

 

I don't think cousins are considered incest in the game of thrones world. Tywin was married to his cousin, and Lysa wanted to marry Sansa to Robin.

 

Cersei and Jaime are the worst kept secret in King's Landing anyway. It doesn't need to be spelled out.

Cersei may have screwed herself inadvertently with her advice to Tommen on using military force. But then again, Tommen may put on his big boy pants, but that is not certain as he seems to be the exact opposite of his brother. I will be curious to see if Varys makes it to Dany and Tyrion in the next couple of episodes.

 

It is more likely to see Varys visit Kings Landing again, to make sure Kevan Lannister's competent leadership does not mess up his long term plans.

 

Book plot aside, can tv-show Varys even show himself at KL?
They likely will replace him with LF for that in the show.

 

Well, he is a master of disguise. His typical flamboyant style is a way to make people don't pay as much attention to his actual facial features, so that no one would recognize him in other garb.

"Showing himself at Kings Landing" would probably consist of revealing his face to the camera for a few seconds, and then disappearing again.

They certainly could give the job to Little Finger if they wanted to though.

 

I wonder if the "leader" of the white walkers will appear in the books. I kinda hope not.

 

The creators keep referring to him as "The Nights King," who was referenced in the first of the books as a character from ancient legend.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night's_King

He was the 13th Lord Commander of the Nights Watch (Jon Snow is said to be the 998th, although there are only extant records of 667) before falling in love with what may have been a female White Walker and breaking his vows. He named himself king and ruled with his cold queen over the brothers of the Nightswatch, forcing them to perform vile sacrifices until Brandon the Breaker, the King of Winter, and Joramun, the King-Beyond-the-Wall, joined forces to bring him down.

The legends seem to imply that they killed him, but I suppose he could have survived for thousands of years if no longer human.

No one really knows for sure, because his name was blotted out from history for the gravity of his crimes, but Old Nan claims he was a Stark of Winterfell.



A few days ago I came across a video discussing why Melisandra wanted to seduce Jon Snow. It implied that her "shadow babies" can only be used to assassinate a blood relative of the man whose seed was used to produce them. I don't recall that being hinted at in the books, but if true and if Old Nan is also right then it might perhaps be possible for the Nights King to fall the same way as Renly Baratheon.

(In the real world genes mix and mutate enough that after a just dozen or so generations there would be no more connection between and two random persons, but in the world of Westeros royal lines bear striking resemblances to each other for thousands of years.)

It seems more likely though that it is just the standard deal of her finding power in royal blood. Jon is descended from the oldest royal line in all the known world. The Starks reigned as Kings of Winter for millennia before Valyria was founded. If the R + L = J theory is right, then Jon also has much purer royal Targaryen blood than Stannis ever had. (It seems more likely that if there is special power in royal blood it comes not from simply holding political titles, but rather from the blood magic that helped the Valyrians master their dragons.)

 

Btw, is there any particular reason why Snow & crew don't use their fleet to disembark at the side of the Wall that is in the North?

Surely Castle Black is not near the shore, and it seems rather braindead to march to there with the halflings and a few crows.

 

It would be too much like right.

Here is a map, you tell me.

Spoiler :

 

The way the Night's King was staring intently at Snow when he killed homeboy and when he was sailing away implies there is some connection or at least NK recognizes some significance in Snow.

 

If I was a Westerosi investor, right now is the time to invest/purchase in obsidian mines. You'd not only become instantly rich from the sudden high demand for obsidian, but the power that would come with it, not to mention that if you also open an obsidian processing plant to weaponize the obsidian, you'd be the #1 arms dealer for the Living to combat what seems like a World War Z sized hoard that is about to pour from the far North.

 

Is there any known reason why obsidian should make an effective weapon against, I suppose, zombies, while steel isn't?

 

You didn't see the battle of Hardhome, huh?

 

^Maybe Borachio is asking for the particular chemical properties of obsidian, that allow it to be lethal against WW

 

Perhaps I may be wrong, so anyone jump in and correct me, but I do not think the story covers why obsidian is so effective against the Others yet, put people just know that it is based on tradition, and first hand accounts for some like Samwell.

Since it is called Dragonglass, I have a feeling Dragonstone is about to become an important place.

 

According to MacAttack's map, there is a river that would place them north of Castle Black, but much more likely is that there just aren't enough boats to take everyone at once. I think the initial plan was to ferry people back-&-forth to "a few miles north of Eastwatch" & let them walk to Castle Black, then send the boats back for more people. That said, it would make more sense to ferry them south of Eastwatch, rather than north. Who knows?

I think you'll turn out to be correct regarding Jon's significance, but the simplest explanation is that NK saw him kill a White Walker.

It doesn't, though. Obsidian/"Dragon Glass" is uniquely effective against White Walkers, of which there are, I dunno, maybe a dozen? Possibly less fewer [/Stannis grammar correction]

The Wights (ie zombies) have to be hacked apart, burned, or stomped on by a giant. Obsidian &/or Valyrian steel (&, I'm guessing, dragon fire) are needed to kill a White Walker, & we just found out this episode that Valyrian steel is effective. You wouldn't want to arm your whole army with Obsidian Daggers (unless you are playing Might & Magic: Clouds of Xeen [/dating myself]) because against normal people/zombies, they are not particularly effective.

 

Oh. I see. I think.

What's the difference between a "White Walker" and a zombie, then? And why is obsidian effective against the former but not the latter? I don't need a complete in-depth scientific explanation (with diagrams and formulae and everything) though, just something comprehensible to the average layman with a bus to catch.

 

Zombies/wights/whatever: Dead bodies reanimated by bad magic. Show no signs of intelligence beyond rabid animal level. Can be destroyed by regular physical means (but apparently you have to be pretty thorough since even badly mangled ones can still move about and be dangerous). Especially vulnerable to fire.

White walkers: The dudes responsible for the reanimation. Only a low number have been seen. Blue eyes, often ride dead horses, command the hordes of the dead, can only be killed by exotic means, etc. The series has strongly suggested that at least some of them started their existence as humans (see: Craster's sons).

 

Obsidian was a glass of choice for the Aztec army, so it is possible to outfit an army using obsidian. They used it with arrows, atlatl launched darts, spears, and "swords" called Macuahuitl, which is basically a flat club with rows of obsidian blades, which were sometimes discontinuous, leaving gaps along the side. Other times, the rows were set close together and formed a single edge. It was said by the Spanish that the macuahuitl was so cleverly constructed that the blades could be neither pulled out nor broken.

Spoiler :

The Aztecs were masters with weaponizing obsidian, and helped them be the most dominant civilization in central and southern Mexico, until they encountered the Spanish and gunpowder weapons. If the Westerosi mastered the Aztecs' techniques, they could use these obsidian weapons effectively against the White Walkers and their Zombie army. I like the idea of ranged obsidian weapons to avoid close hand to hand combat with the White Walkers, but if I were a military commander preparing for these guys, I would outfit everyone with a small obsidian dagger, just in case, and then have a some specialized troops with the more complex obsidian weapons to focus on targeting the WWs, while having the rest of the troops carry more conventional weapons to fight the Zombies.

I wonder if the GoT mods out there that our fellow modders created cover this? I have not bothered to download those mods yet.