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Game Options to make LAN games easier

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Rystic, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. Rystic

    Rystic Turtle Wizard

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    When my friends and I play LAN games, we have to mulligan a lot. We always do Erebus maps, which leads to a lot of crappy starts. We keep reloading over and over if bad start locations persist. Other times, locations might be good, but one play gets molested early on by barbarians and never really gets off the ground. We have to restart then, too.

    It gets frustrating, but I feel that a lot of this LAN game stress can be alleviated with the right addition of a few new options. For instance:

    1. Saving game options.
    I don't care if it's a reset button, or a button called 'save options', just something to keep them where they are. I could rip out my eyeballs in frustration every time I spend ten minutes setting up a match with aggressive AI, barbarian world, Always War, permanent alliances, remove all religions except FoL, Order, Veil, set a Living World, Blessing of Amathanon, No AI Build Requirements and No AI Level Requirements, then set the Doviello up with the Illians, the Bannor with the Malakim Varn and Decius, and the Sheaim leaders up with the Calabim, then play as the elves and start in the middle of the goddamn desert. And since there's no WB in multiplayer, we really have no choice but to quit and set all the options again.

    2. No lairs near start locations.
    Our last match, my friend was boxed in by two goblin forts. Lairs make life difficult. And in LAN games they often mean a reset if there are too many near one player. An option to remove nearby lairs (maybe within 10 tiles) would be a blessing.

    3. Weaker barbarians.
    There was once a time when barbarians stood outside your borders, wistfully looking in at your cities and farms, hoping to one day pillage them. But they couldn't, until their king came around. I miss those days. Now barbarians can ruin your stuff whenever. Really, though, in a multiplayer match, we don't want barbarians to ruin our stuff, we want to ruin each others stuff. At the same time, we don't want to turn off barbarians entirely. We just don't want them pillaging our parades.

    So barbarians have three difficulties right now; None/Normal/BARBARIAN RAGE. It'd be nice if there was some other option, "Weak Barbarians", that gave the barbarian leader the Weak trait (so all barbs have -1 strength). It would really help in dealing with the horde early on, and help immensely against an inconvenient Orthus spawn.


    Anyway, these are just a few ideas. I don't that any would be that difficult to implement. My friends and I want something to make it so we can start, click a few options, and go, without our almost mandatory two to three mulligans. Anyone have any thoughts on these?
     
  2. mimic

    mimic Magic Box

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    Ha! if you think that's bad try a normal ffh multiplayer game with about 12 people..its a nightmare :)
     
  3. Rystic

    Rystic Turtle Wizard

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    I can only imagine...
     
  4. Kyroshill

    Kyroshill Huh?

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    3 hours is not a reasonable time to start a game? :lol: :crazyeye:
     
  5. Monthar

    Monthar Emperor

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    I did find it quite odd that the options always reset themselves, when they persist in the vanilla version and the mods that came on the disk. Sure we still have to set the AI and teams, but at least all the options like no tech brokering, etc are where we left them in the game before.

    Another thing that would be helpful is to enable the map regeneration for both multiplayer and single player.

    As far as the lair issue, isn't there an option to turn off the lairs without turning off the barbs?
     
  6. Grakor456

    Grakor456 Chieftain

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    Pretty sure there's a "No Lairs" option.

    Honestly, I'd be quite happy with the ability to turn off flavor starts on Erebus. At least, I assume that's what's happening there. I love the maps it generates, but I hate what it does to the poor Doviello. Apparently, Erebus' version of the "ideal" start for Doviello is a heavily forested and hilly ice field, in a mountain valley with only one exit. Not only is the start terrible for them, but it takes forever to relocate to a place they can actually use. Pretty sure the script also has this fascination with dumping Clan of Embers in the middle of a jungle.
     
  7. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    They allowed it to save options a few patches ago, but it caused too many problems. Other mods with hidden options and stuff like that.
     
  8. Jean Elcard

    Jean Elcard The Flavournator

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    Easy to change. Set ForceGameOptions = 1 to 0 in the Fall from Heaven 2.ini.
     
  9. Angrenost

    Angrenost Chieftain

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    In my games we never restart because of a bad starting terrain and although we play with with raging barbarians no one has problems with it because even if someone is destroyed he can take over an AI, and if he loses a bit later when it'd be problematic to give him a somewhat equal AI he just says "okay, had fun, cya".

    You may face impossible challenges or get unlucky, but that's the spirit of the game, better luck next time.

    Then if half of the players are wiped out within 50-80 turns, that's another thing, which luckily has happened no more than a few times.
     
  10. Rystic

    Rystic Turtle Wizard

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    We don't want to turn off lairs completely. We just don't want them next to our starting settlers.
     
  11. Y T

    Y T Kourier

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    Playing the normal erebus mapscript gives me a headache everytime anyway. In the past I suggested to implement a few changes somebody else posted in the erebus thread, when it was still a mod.
    Luckily Jean Elcard took all the bits together & created the mapscriptpack I always wanted to see:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=282901

    You wont ever find Elves starting in deserts or goblinforts being to close to your startingposition with it!
     
  12. Rystic

    Rystic Turtle Wizard

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    We don't really want to do that. We do 2v2v2 matches. Sometimes without the AI altogether.

    We really just don't want the barbarians to bother us as much during the settling phase of the game.
     
  13. Neikius

    Neikius Chieftain

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    Ok, some more ideas:

    - fix OOS
    - fix crashing


    Now this sounds a bit cynical, but actually its really bad.

    We found out that "special features" cause crashing and later OOS. So playing with no special features usually fixes that. But the funny thing is with some patch in tha past it used to work!

    We played one long game with "all special features".

    Then it got broken even more. Now we get OOS in a perfectly normal game. Sadly my friends are not that patient to restart 50 times per evening...
     
  14. Kyroshill

    Kyroshill Huh?

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    OK.... so do you understand what OOS is? (I'm not being an Azz.... I'm just curious as to how experienced you are with MP....


    We play MP all the time with All Unique Features..... we also summon Bazza and Hybbie (and even take them over).... and allow Hell Terrain.... you name it.....

    Do we OOS? Of course we do..... but it's always because:

    1. Someone forgot they hadn't patched
    2. Someone forgot that they changed a bit of code for a custom scenario
    3. Someone is running FlavourMod
    4. Someone dropped, and the game was saved too late, causing an OOS on return (or even reload sometimes)
    5. New Random Seed on Reload is checked (can cause probs similar to above, may have to reload previous autosave)

    I'm sure there are other reasons....

    Figure out which player(s) are OOS, and deduce the issue from there.....

    I hope this helps, seriously.... : )

    Have fun!
     
  15. Neikius

    Neikius Chieftain

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    Yeah, I do know what an OOS is :)

    Now let's analyze.

    1.) -> could be. Khazad player dropped now and the problems have ceased. The thing is, she tried to patch midgame and we reloaded after that to no avail.

    2.) -> nope

    3.) -> not really sure what is that so I suppose nobody is running that

    4.) noone dropped... but how the heck could this happen? O_o

    5.) -> nope

    So in the end it could only be 1), but still that should have gone away after patching once more (if that was the reasona anyway). But it didnt.

    And we crashed at first when we had "all special features".
     
  16. smusebaer

    smusebaer Warlord

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    It would be great to set the timer for a Barbarian attack.
    Lairsstart to spawn on Turn XX
    Barbarians start to spawn on Turn XX
     
  17. Neikius

    Neikius Chieftain

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    Agreed on the timer. It is kinda weak when orthus attacks you on the turn 2 (playing classical).

    Oh there is one more thing that bothers me - ultra long games.

    Maybe make some ultra quick game mode? Or just make quck faster... it normal civ quick game is quick. 2-3 hours for us. In ffh, we can play on quick for hours and not even meet all other players. Now I don't know, does ffh just seem so slow or is it actually slow?
     
  18. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    All of you should do a clean install in a new directory and check you're using the same language versions. Recent versions of FFH have been very reliable for MP without the kind of problems you're describing. Back in March I completed maybe a 300 turn MP game between 4 players a week without any OOS except when one of us hadn't patched.

    The other thing is how do you deal with the turn 0 crash? Does the host reload the game from the autosave and have everyone rejoin, or do you try to reconnect to the host without restarting? Restarting using the autosave is better.
     
  19. Neikius

    Neikius Chieftain

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    As for turn 0 crash, we tried:
    - just rejoining the game, result is OOS
    - saving and rehosting, result is OOS

    We probably didn't try loading the autosave... I didnt think of that.

    Doing a clean install is quite a pain. Would it be enough to simply delete FFH folder and reinstall? Some of my friends are quite the PC noobs so this all falls back on me. I am quite sure we have the same files installed since I provided them. On the other hand it is true that we patched a lot. Maybe that has left us somewheat inconsistent? If not every file ever patched is included in z version.

    edit: oh, and sorry for hijacking the thread :S

    I would still like to see some option to speed up the game though.
     
  20. Kyroshill

    Kyroshill Huh?

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    Well.... when you go OOS.... look at the values and see whose values don't match.... have them reinstall FfH and try again, easier than everyone doing it :)
     

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