Game pace/eras feel "too fast"

[Arent11]

It has long bugged me that the eras feel as if they are 'flying by'. A few turns I'm in ancient times, then already classical era starts. If you're beelining, tree techs later you are already in medieval times.
It feels weird. Somehow I feel I should stay longer in ancient times, with brutal warriors, pyramids & primitive pantheons - literally for "thousands" of years. And then, classical era with hoplites & legions should also take their time.

I think I have finally identified the reasons I feel this way:

(1) the ability to beeline strongly - which allows you to rush ahead 1-2 eras
(2) the splitting between the tech & culture tree. Because of that, every era only has ~8-10 techs (in the science tree).

Of course, if you combine both trees you get 15 techs, which is more appropriate. But since they are not interdependent, the eras feel less fleshed out. The few techs per era also make beelining easier, which adds to the feeling that eras are 'rushing by'.

 

[baboon]

Don't want to state the obvious, but you can lower the game speed, maybe that solves it a bit?

 

[Arent11]

Don't want to state the obvious, but you can lower the game speed, maybe that solves it a bit?

As I said in the OP, this is not about the game speed, but the techs per era. Eras are represented/characterized by the tech tree. The splitting of science/culture tree leads to "short" eras & the missing interdependence between tech & culture tree (example: writing as prerequisite for cultural archievements, enlightenment as prerequisite for industrialization) leads to short beelines that immediately send you to the next 2 eras.

 

[Magil]

There are quite a few mods which address this issue. Some by adding more techs, some by slowing tech/civic pacing in general (some doing both).

So yeah, definitely not just you who has an issue with this. Lots of modders felt the same!

 

[Calyxx]

I suspect the culprit is not the number of techs, but the relative tech/culture/production costs. Production is slow - it often seems that you can research 2-3 techs in both trees by the time you finish building a single district or other fairly expensive item. I feel a strong city with high (for the era) population and good production should be able to build nearly all available buildings and be at the district cap for its population. Currently, new buildings arrive from technologies far before you have built nearly anything.

If turn times to aquire technologies and cultural advancements increased, while production was boosted, I think this problem would disappear.

 

[Sagax]

Surprised nobody has mentioned how Eureka boosts further aggravate the issue. Kill a barbarian, farm some tiles, do some basic necessities - boom, you have propelled yourself out of the Ancient and Classical era.

 

[Magil]

Surprised nobody has mentioned how Eureka boosts further aggravate the issue. Kill a barbarian, farm some tiles, do some basic necessities - boom, you have propelled yourself out of the Ancient and Classical era.

I personally like the 50% Eureka system, but there are also mods that tune it down if that's your thing.

 

[Calyxx]

I personally like the 50% Eureka system, but there are also mods that tune it down if that's your thing.

I don't think it is the Eureka system per se, but the fact that overall the techs cost too little. Though changing tech costs will also likely require rebalancing the eureka.

 

[isau]

One of the biggest problems IMO is that you get a free 0.7 science and 0.3 culture from each point of population. That's the reason it's so easy to go the whole game without building more than a few Campus Districts. The city center district is basically a Campus on its own. When you strip that away the game slows down some. Not quite enough--part of the problem is the tech tree itself supporting too much beelining. But you definitely feel the pressure to decide between Campuses and Commercial Hubs when the district is critical.

 

[manu-fan]

They definitely feel too fast. I even play on Epic already. I think they need to be at least doubled for whole tree. By the time I'm getting Domination Victories, I'm getting Future Tech after Future Tech.

 

[UWHabs]

One of the biggest problems IMO is that you get a free 0.7 science and 0.3 culture from each point of population. That's the reason it's so easy to go the whole game without building more than a few Campus Districts. The city center district is basically a Campus on its own. When you strip that away the game slows down some. Not quite enough--part of the problem is the tech tree itself supporting too much beelining. But you definitely feel the pressure to decide between Campuses and Commercial Hubs when the district is critical.

Yeah, I definitely think we get too much science from pop. An early campus is big (when you're getting less than 10 science as an empire, adding +2 or +3 from adjacency can be massive), but after that one, I find I often don't need to throw down another one until sometime in the renaissance. Combined with seemingly easier science eurekas than culture ones, it definitely makes the science tree take a big early lead, while you wait for the culture tree to catch up (especially since it's really hard to get a good adjacency on a theatre district).

 

[Arent11]

There are quite a few mods which address this issue. Some by adding more techs, some by slowing tech/civic pacing in general (some doing both).

So yeah, definitely not just you who has an issue with this. Lots of modders felt the same!

I suspect the culprit is not the number of techs, but the relative tech/culture/production costs. Production is slow - it often seems that you can research 2-3 techs in both trees by the time you finish building a single district or other fairly expensive item. I feel a strong city with high (for the era) population and good production should be able to build nearly all available buildings and be at the district cap for its population. Currently, new buildings arrive from technologies far before you have built nearly anything.

If turn times to aquire technologies and cultural advancements increased, while production was boosted, I think this problem would disappear.

I think I still didn't make my point clear enough. I want to give an example:

(1) If you have ~15 techs per era (tech/culture tree combined) and you need ~8 techs to beeline into the next era that "feels" like a fleshed out, long era.
(2) If you have ~8 techs in two tech trees and you need ~4 techs to beeline into the next era, this is extremely short.

A simple example: If I tech Animal Husbandry -> Horseback Riding -> Stirrups I'm already in the medieval era(!) And if I play Arabia, I don't even need iron to build those Knights. This is absurd.

 

[Elucidus]

its just that when they split the tree in two they left a lot of open gaps, which leaves a lot to be desired. I am trying to find a balance between longer eras (even added a couple) and fun. I don't want the game to feel like a grind, but it is too quick for lack of a better term.

I am planning to add governments that chance how you can best run your civ, tall vs wide for example.

 

[joncnunn]

A good part of this is the same problem in Civ V: 500 turns for normal speed is way too many. Simply changing to a 400 turn for normal speed and adjusting the displayed year (without decreasing research costs further like Quick speed does) would work better than simply slowing down progress thru the science & cultural trees so much that 400+ turns would be required for spaceship victory.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

its just that when they split the tree in two they left a lot of open gaps, which leaves a lot to be desired. I am trying to find a balance between longer eras (even added a couple) and fun. I don't want the game to feel like a grind, but it is too quick for lack of a better term.

I am planning to add governments that chance how you can best run your civ, tall vs wide for example.

Is it possible to mod i dependencies between Civics and Techs? Not at home, so can't look at the trees, but there must be points where some Civic or Tech might be dependent on the other to be acquired. You can still maintain the culture-civic ad science-tech dynamic yet have them be a little interactive with each other.

 

[Elucidus]

Not that I have been able to get to work. I tried that this afternoon. I think that would add a lot to the game actually.

You can add a PrereqCivic column to the PrereqTechnology table, but it does not appear to work like when you add Prereqtech to the Policy table. I then tried to drop the table and recreate it without the Not Null property for PrereqTech column, but either I didn't do it in the right way or it just won't work. I stopped there, so it is still possible.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I have posted to the modding forum for insight.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

It should be used in the most egregious instances... like the bee-line to knights. And perhaps, once a civ gets to the next era, the interconnection requirement could be dropped so that the civics and techs do not quite need to work in lock-step... which also is not ideal.

 

[Elucidus]

Yeah, I hope someone comes up with a good way to do it.

My plan is to use it for revolutionary technologies, and techs that affect both techs and civics, like writing.

 

[McGreggD]

If you want a fun game where the eras don't go by too fast I suggest using the increased x5 all in one mod, you can download it on these forums. It increases research for techs / civics and great person points, production stays the same.

Don't be put off on the first turn when you see code of laws at 72 turns research time and a basic tech at 45 turns. When you start building cities with a campus and get science / culture bonuses from resources and city states etc it speeds up to a decent pace.

You will have plenty of time to build and enjoy the eras. I find the AI to be more challenging at war with this mod aswell, it will build many military units because there are periods of turns when there is nothing else to build.

Enjoy.