1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Game Play Differences Between Expansion Packs

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by psparky, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. psparky

    psparky Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2011
    Messages:
    259
    Gender:
    Male
    The following is a list of the main differences a BtS player would see when playing a Warlords or vanilla GOTM. The aim was to produce checklist that could be read in a few minutes, covering the most significant and the most often forgotten differences between the games.

    Warlords:

    • Anarchy can occur during Golden Age, first Golden Age uses two Great Persons (not one), no +100% GPP
    • Space win occurs at launch, capturing or razing capital does not destroy completed components, all components must be built, different tech requirements for components (see below for further change in vanilla)
    • Siege can kill, no Flank attack against Siege, Siege can attack from boats
    • Key interface differences - no prechop control, no WHEOOHRN indicator, no capitulation alert, cannot examine captured cities
    • Stonehenge and Obelisks/Monuments obsolete at Calendar (not Astronomy)
    • Captured Workers can move on same turn
    • No gold from excess production overflow
    • Simple air combat and no air promotions, no XP from airports, unlimited air units per city (not max 4, 8 with Airport)
    • Caste System no +1:hammers: from Workshop, Slavery low upkeep (not medium), Emancipation no upkeep (not low), Environmentalism no +2:commerce: from Windmills but gets +1:) from Jungle and Forest, State Property no +10%:hammers:
    • Expansive gives 50% worker bonus (not 25%) (see below for further change in vanilla)
    • Railroads require Coal (Oil not an alternative), no Forest Preserve
    • Simple Forts (can only be built within own culture borders, do not give access to resources, cannot house naval or air units)
    • Factories no +2:yuck: from Coal and Oil
    • Cavalry does not require Rifling, Trireme does not require Metal Casting, Grenadier requires Chemistry (not Military Science)
    • Greek Phalanx replaces Spearman (not Axeman) and no free March promotion, Japanese Samurai no free Drill I
    • Barrage available to Armored Units
    • Great General generation needs less combat experience
    • Workboat does not become ocean-going with Astronomy
    • Workboat, Galley, Trireme and Ironclad can enter an ocean tile within foreign culture borders with Open Borders or when at war with the controlling civilization (cannot do so in BtS, except ocean-going Workboats)
    • No Blockade, no Sea Patrol, no Pillage of naval trade routes
    • Trade by river does not require Sailing, can trade obsolete resources
    • No Espionage Points system, Spy requires Scotland Yard national wonder, demographics always visible
    • No Corporations
    • No Colonies (no specific Overseas Maintenance Cost), no City Liberation
    • No Random Events
    • No Advanced Flight, Aesthetics, Laser, Military science, Stealth, Superconductors, different tech requirements for: Fibre Optics, Robotics, Computers
    • No Airship, Anti-tank Infantry, Attack Submarine, Cuirassier, Guided Missile, Missile Cruiser, Mobile Artillery, Mobile SAM, Paratrooper, Privateer, Ship of the Line, Tactical Nuke
    • No Customs House, Industrial Park, Intelligence Agency, Levee, Public Transportation, Security Bureau
    • No Apostolic Palace, Cristo Redentor, Mausoleum of Maussollos, Moai Statues, National Park, Scwedagon Paya, Statue of Zeus.
    • Parthenon requires only Polytheism (not +Aesthetics), Sistine Chapel requires Theology (not Music) and no +5:culture: per State :religion: building, Notre Dame requires Music (not Engineering), Hagia Sophia requires Engineering (not Theology)
    • Less civs and leaders <Added in BtS>, Augustus Caesar is Creative and Organized (not Industrious and Imperialistic)

    Vanilla (in addition to above):

    • Building research/culture/wealth gets 50% (not 100%) of :hammers:, and bonuses from Library/Bank etc apply, but not from Forge etc (opposite to WL and BtS) (so often better to build research rather than wealth in vanilla)
    • No Great Wall, Temple of Artemis, University of Sankore
    • No Trebuchet, Trireme
    • Chariot does not get +100% against Axeman, Siege can receive collateral damage
    • Civil Service does not require Mathematics (Oracle slingshot affected)
    • Can preselect an item to build in captured cities for free turn of production when they emerge from resistance
    • Production from chops happens immediately on completion, no opportunity to change build target that turn
    • Production from chop is lost when building research/culture/wealth or when no production item is selected
    • River deltas provide fresh water to less tiles
    • Workboat, Galley and Ironclad cannot enter an Ocean tile within enemy culture borders when at war
    • Resource bubbles point toward the equator
    • Bulbing priority means Great Prophet can bulb Civil Service (avoid Masonry) fairly early
    • Capturing or razing enemy capital destroys completed spaceship components
    • West Point needs a level 5 unit (not 6), Space Elevator requires only Robotics (not +Satellites)
    • Expansive gives no worker bonus, but +3:health: (not +2)
    • Bureaucracy medium upkeep (not high), Representation gives +2:) (not +3),
    • Barracks give 4 XP (not 3), cost 60 (not 50)
    • No Stable, no additional trade route from Castle, no bombardment protection from Walls or Castle
    • Basic Forts (no City Garrison or City Raider bonuses, remove Forests in same tile, can be used by enemy)
    • Quarry does not get +1:hammers: with Railroad
    • Aztec Jaguar gets +25% Jungle defence, but not Woodsman I
    • Pinch does not require Gunpowder
    • Can see units on foreign ships
    • No Great Generals
    • No Vassals
    • No Unique Buildings
    • Less civilizations and leaders <Added in WL> and many leaders have different traits <See Old Traits column here>

    List originally compiled by psparky, following a suggestion by Deckhand. Far too many people to credit them all here, but if I used your input, then thanks!

    Moderator Action: Thanks go to psparky who compiled this list to help players to deal with game-play changes as they move between the three xOTM series. The original discussions can be found in this thread.
     
  2. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Chieftain GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2001
    Messages:
    4,946
    Location:
    Tuckasegee, NC
    Much appreciated.
     
  3. WelshGandalf

    WelshGandalf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    743
    Do chops get you more :hammers: in vanilla or am I imagining that?
     
  4. psparky

    psparky Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2011
    Messages:
    259
    Gender:
    Male
    I think it's the same - 20 (within BFC), 30 with maths.

    The Warlords Manual indicates a reduction compared with vanilla (I think it was originally 30 in vanilla), but the same reduction was made in the 1.61 vanilla patch.
     
  5. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Messages:
    6,359
    Location:
    Australia
    Hammers from chops depend only on speed. 13 on Quick, 20 on Normal....... before modifiers of course.
     
  6. Alamankarazieff

    Alamankarazieff Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Avignon, France
    I also received a +40 chop in the capital on this GOTM making me check the speed. There is something to investigate here...
     
  7. psparky

    psparky Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2011
    Messages:
    259
    Gender:
    Male
    Please be very careful not to reveal ANYTHING about a current GOTM. In this case I guess you were building an early barracks, for which you get double hammers from being aggressive. But there are other combinations that can give this result.
     
  8. WelshGandalf

    WelshGandalf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    743
    Maths + forge + a building you can get for cheap thanks to your trait = over 60 hammers I think :)

    Are there fewer promotions available in vanilla too, eg Woodsman 3? I'm at work at the moment so can't check.
     
  9. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,051
    After stumbling on this old post, I verified and now confirm there is a small change from Warlords to BTS for horses archers. Indeed, a small handicap of 10% against city attacking was implemented in Warlords expansion, but it doesn't exist anymore.

    Really funny that this non-bonus is shown green as it was a bonus in odds showing.

    So, in Warlords, there was a difference of 20% between swords and HA's. Interesting when making choice of classical rushing.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. HuginogMunin

    HuginogMunin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Also, there is no intercontinal trade route bonuses in Vanilla(and Warlords). In BtS there is an +100% bonus, which makes routes +2 (with own cities) and +3 (foreign cities) from start. This makes a big difference/advantage on archipelago maps on BtS
     
  11. Mitchum

    Mitchum Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    11,719
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Here are a few more differences between Warlords and BtS:

    1. In Warlords (and Vanilla), you can win a Diplo victory by owning 62% of the total pops and voting for yourself without the need to have an AI vote for you (i.e. Diplomation). In BtS, if you have more than 62% of the total pops, the UN Diplo Victory option won't even be available as a possible vote.

    2. In Warlords (and Vanilla), begging/demanding gold does NOT enforce a 10-turn peace treaty. This means that you can demand all of an AI's gold on the turn you plan to declare war on them so that they have no gold to upgrade their units.

    3. In Warlords (didn't test Vanilla), TRs are set up between your own cities on the turn after they are settled even if there is a connection between the two cities (i.e. roads, rivers, coastal + sailing) when the city is founded. In BtS, if there is a connection, you'll get the TRs between the two cities on the turn you settle.

    4. In Warlords (didn't test Vanilla), the AI do not automatically meet each other when the UN is built. So there is the possiblity of an AI not even knowing one of the UN candidates.
     
  12. kenwyn

    kenwyn Master

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,270
    Many thanks to All. :thumbsup:

    Thank goodness most (all?) GoM's stick with normal speed, otherwise the variations would be exponentially greater/more confusing(!). :confused:
     
  13. ZeekLTK

    ZeekLTK Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Messages:
    257
    I can confirm for vanilla. I had a two continent game where Greece was landlocked and surrounded by Japan and Russia (and impassable arctic). These two were not giving out open borders very easily, and Greece did not have any access to the ocean, so many of the civs on the opposite continent never met them.

    I was one of those civs on the other continent, and it took quite an effort to meet Greece. I don't think I made contact until 1908 AD or so, well after the UN was built.
     

Share This Page