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Game Speed Scaling issues

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Bug Reports' started by Exodite, Oct 28, 2016.

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  1. jaegybomb

    jaegybomb Chieftain

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    Objectively speaking. :) Subjectively you can say they overbalanced or maybe they didn't balance enough but to say the rewards shouldn't be balanced at all relative to the time you can get them is objectively wrong when different speeds will always get them at different times relative to the game progression.
     
  2. Exodite

    Exodite Chieftain

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    Again, it's the exact opposite of that - objectively speaking.

    The longer you can delay picking up Tribal Village rewards, relative to game progression, the stronger they are. In reality you're rarely able to delay it though, since you're competing with other civilizations for them.

    There's also the fact that they are an extremely limited resource, had they spawned continuously every X turns you might have had a point but as it is there's nothing to snowball from.

    Getting a Tribal Village reward on turn 20/50/100 on Marathon speed is always going to be weaker, on average, than getting one on turn 20/50/100 on Online speed (or any speed faster than Marathon). This is true even without factoring potential turn limit scaling into the equation, something that only acts to exacerbate the effect.
     
  3. jaegybomb

    jaegybomb Chieftain

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    They don't have to keep spawning to be able to snowball the advantage to other aspects of the game. Say you pop a hut and get iron working 8 turns early. Because of this you are able to move up your push and take a few cities off an enemy that you otherwise wouldn't have gotten. Because of this you pull ahead of them in tech and hit muskets far before they do. Because of this you wipe them out and have double the production you would have had. The strength of any reward is a combination of it's raw strength (which you are solely focused on) and how early you are able to get it.
     
  4. Exodite

    Exodite Chieftain

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    On what speed, Standard?

    Because if you're getting Iron Working on Standard you'd be getting Bronze Working, or something similarly far down, on slower speeds. And something a tier or two above on Online speed. Waiting as long as possible to claim a Tribal Village reward is always going to the best option, regardless of game speed. Since tech/civic development scales with game speed and exploration does not you end up with a situation that looks like this
    • At Online speed, on turn 100 (not turn 50) you're likely to get Medieval Era tech/civic boosts from relevant huts.
    • At Standard speed, on turn 100, you're likely to get Classical Era tech/civic boosts from relevant huts.
    • At Marathon speed, on turn 100 (not turn 300) you're only going to get Ancient Era tech/civic boosts from relevant huts.
    That seems to be the aspect you're missing here, Tribal Village rewards already scale because they're dependent upon the development of the player as they're receiving the reward.

    And that's ignoring the fact that you're likely to hit ~75% of the Ancient and Classical Era boosts without any assistance and that these rewards are not only available equally to all players but rare enough that you're never going to be able to depend upon them for development. All balancing factors in their own regard.

    Tribal Village rewards are already reasonably balanced by design (if more powerful overall at faster speeds) or at the very least will be once the actual rewards (gold/faith etc.) has been fixed to scale with game speed and we're sure that the minimum turn requirement does not.
     
  5. jaegybomb

    jaegybomb Chieftain

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    OK you get robotics for free when you get there and I get iron working when I get there. Lets see who wins.
     
  6. Exodite

    Exodite Chieftain

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    Since you've moved on from argument to hyperbole and fallacies I'll consider this particular discussion closed.
     
  7. jaegybomb

    jaegybomb Chieftain

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    Expanding on the idea helps to illustrate the core concept.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  8. Exodite

    Exodite Chieftain

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    Quick update on patch 1.0.0.38 (235603)

    • The official patch notes do not mention any game speed-related fixes.
    • I've so far been unable to identify any undocumented game speed-related fixes in game.
    • I'll update relevant sections as I'm able to test them.
    • Third party confirmation appreciated!
    Currently tested
    • XP scaling still in, meaning Quick/Online games end up with too powerful units and Epic/Marathon games end up with too weak ones.
    • Exploration XP still don't scale, however.
    • Tribal Village rewards (gold/faith/xp) still don't scale.
    • Gold rewards for clearing Barbarian Encampments still don't scale.
    • City project great person points still don't scale.
    • Harvesting resources still don't scale.
    As I mentioned in the opening post I wouldn't consider most of these the game speed-related issues a high priority considering the other, truly game-breaking, bugs and exploits in the game.

    It's still rather disappointing to see zero game speed-related fixes however, as most of these should be relatively trivial to fix and they tend to have a notable impact on multiplayer games as these are usually played on Quick/Online speed.
     

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