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Gameplan

Discussion in 'Team Kazakhstan' started by Jimmy369, Nov 20, 2008.

  1. Jimmy369

    Jimmy369 Warlord

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    So far we have been talking in the leaders thread a bit about what we want to do in this game. I thought we needed a thread to think on our long term goals. What do we want?

    Specialists Vs. Cottages
    Early\Mid\Late lead
    Military or Culture Etc.

    I think that we should aim to be the second strongest team in the medieval and pump religions for a culture win.
     
  2. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    I think it is too early to focus on how we will win. A lot depends on our neighbors and diplomacy.
    This is far better. It means we focus on growing our cities and improving our land. At that point we can focus on how we want to win. By then we'll have met everyone, made some trades and taken our measure of our foes.

    Just for the record, what are the various victory conditions in Civ IV?
     
  3. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    Does anyone have any intel on what the other teams are likely to do? The Old Timers and leading personalities on the other teams might have a particular play style or gambit that they are well known for. We won't know for sure what they are up to but we can speculate.

    I'll use the Oracle as an example again- I love love love getting it but if we know that another team is going for it then it might be too risky. Sooooo... what do you guys think the other teams might be up to?

    "If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril." -Sun Tzu
     
  4. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    @CommandoBob- I hear what you are saying about it being too soon to map out a precise strategy with so many unknowns. 100% spot on. But I do think a rough idea of what direction we want to head in is critical to our leader choice. So its kind of a "which comes first, the chicken or egg" situation.
     
  5. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Rough direction is fine, but I think that is more dependent on our Leader Traits than anything else. I don't know that, but I think that.

    The difference is that this is a Multi-Team Game and that changes how we win. I mean, in a solo game or SG, we could decide before the game starts how we plan to win and be reasonably confident that we can win that way. We can beat the AI.

    But people?
     
  6. Jimmy369

    Jimmy369 Warlord

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    Much the same as in Civ 3. You can win by domination, UN, Culture, Space Race, Conquest. For Culture you need to have three cities with 50,000 culture.
     
  7. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Does culture vary by map size?

    In C3C, 100K culture points gave you a cultural victory on a standard sized map. On a huge map it went up to 160K.
     
  8. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    I think it stays the same, but I am not too sure, but it is different from Civ3 since you need 3 cities of legendary culture
     
  9. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Doesn't BtS have other victory conditions? I see space colony and religious victories in the HoF. There's also the time victory.

    I've not played [civ4] against people. Civ III against people is different than against the AI. It seems these games come down to domination since human players can see other victory conditions coming and act to stop them via military attacks. It is probably the same in [civ4] so we'd better count on having a very strong military if we want to win.
     
  10. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    I think military win will be the way forward as if we try for any other route we will be the ones getting attacked. Attack is the best form of defence...
     
  11. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    We cannot tell from now how will win, it will depend on map, tech progress wonders etc..

    What we can tell is that we definattely need to expand fast and focus on at least 8 cities before 0ad
     
  12. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    All MP games end up being military.

    We won't win a UN vote. Culture would leave us far behind in tech and easy to wipe out at the end. Space Race could be possible - but surviving to that point means we could win by war anyway. Also I suspect a MP game that got into a space race would just result in a nuclear war. Without every AI going crazy over nuclear war there is no reason not to.

    I find most MP games have lots of built up tension - massive stack on each side neither one wanting to commit 1st. The best strategy seems to be keeping up in tech and doing pinprick attacks (razing a poorly defended city) and pillaging. Over the long run this gives a comparative economic advantage.
     
  13. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Now that we know we got Elizabeth of England, can our discussion of game plan proceed any further?
     
  14. Bolkonski

    Bolkonski Prince Bolkonsky

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  15. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    Below is a listing of the leader traits for the other teams' leaders, along with my analysis of their most likely courses of action. Any strategy we come up has to take our opponents into account.

    Spoiler :
    Team Saturn- Darius of Persia
    Starting Techs: Agriculture, Hunting
    Financial: +1 :commerce: on plots with 2 :commerce:
    Organized: Civic upkeep reduced 50%. Double production speed of lighthouse, courthouse, and factory
    UU: Immortal (chariot) 4/2/25 10% withdrawal, 100% vs. axeman, 50% vs. archery units
    UB: Apothecary (grocer) +25% :gold:, health bonuses, can turn 2 citizens into merchants

    Analysis: This team has a very early UU. They will seriously consider a rush against the first neighbor they meet if they think they have an advantage. This team probably plans to make war early and then use the spoils of war to get ahead and stay ahead. Might go for early religion.


    Team SANCTA- Willem of the Dutch
    Starting Techs: Agriculture, Fishing
    Financial: +1 :commerce: on plots with 2 :commerce:
    Creative: +2 :culture: per city. Double production speed of Library, Theatre, Colosseum
    UU: East Indiaman (galleon) 6/4/40 cargo space 4, can enter rival territory
    UB: Dike (levee) +1 production on river and water tiles.

    Analysis: Creative trait gives this team cultural expansion without having to worry about monuments/Stonehenge or early religions. They will be looking to found coastal cities and go for coastal wonders like Great Lighthouse and Colossus. They will shoot for Confucianism or Christianity, with the later religions as back-ups. Expect them to go for the Oracle for a slingshot- code of laws or metal casting, possibly even to civil service if they think they can pull it off. The East Indiaman is an awesome unit for amphibious assaults. I think they plan to get way ahead in tech and then use their navy to launch lighting-fast invasions of anyone who threatens their lead.


    Team 4- Joao of Portugul
    Starting Techs: Fishing, Mining
    Expansive: +2 :health: per city. Double production speed of worker, granary, and harbor
    Imperialistic: +100% Great General emergence; 50% faster production of settlers
    UU: Carrack (caravel) 3/3/60 cargo space 2 units, can enter rival territory
    UB: Feitoria (customs house) +100% from trade routes, +1 commerce on water tiles

    Analysis: This is the only team without the financial trait. They won’t be able to keep up on tech, so expect this team to wage war to make up for that. They will expand early and then pump out units to attack a weaker neighbor, using numbers to overwhelm a more advanced opponent. They have an early amphibious invasion option with carracks. This will probably be the most aggressive team in the game. Might go for early religion.


    Team 5- Pacal of the Mayans
    Starting Techs: Mysticism, Mining
    Financial: +1 :commerce: on plots with 2 :commerce:.
    Expansive: +2 health per city. Double production speed of worker, granary, and harbor.
    UU: Holkan (spearman) 4/1/35 immune to 1st strike, 50 vs. mounted, doesn’t need copper or iron
    UB: Ball Court (colloseum) +3 :) , +1 :) per 20% culture rate

    Analysis: This is the only team starting with mysticism. They will try to dominate the early religions and beeline for Hinduism and Judaism. They might even try for all 3 by getting Buddhism first and then beating the other teams to poly and monotheism. Expect them to expand early to stake their claim on territory/resources and then catch up on research in the mid game. The Holkan gives them a good counter against Team 2’s Immortals, so Darius will probably try to pick on someone else.

    If anyone has any more insight into what our opponents are likely to do please post. Especially if you have knowledge of the other teams' members and their playing styles!
     
  16. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Thanks for the link to the article. I haven't read it all but did read the first part and see that we have both of the strong traits. It seems we'll want to run a hybrid economy and build some wonders. Sounds like fun.

    Our game plan should also take into account the traits (and potential strategies) of our opponents. We are up against:
    • Darius - financial and organized
    • Willem - financial and creative
    • Jaoa - expansive and imperialistic
    • Pacal - financial and expansive
    Three others with financial traits! This means our financial trait will just allow us to keep up with the Joneses. :lol: That might even be difficult since Darius will also benefit from lower maintenance costs. Willem will have fast border expansion while Jaoa and Pacal get cheap settlers. This may mean we'll have to struggle for our share of the land.
     
  17. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    Ah looks like we were thinking along the same lines when we posted simultaneously Donsig!

    I would be really worried about the others civ's creative and expansive traits if we were on a crowded map. But I think we will have some breathing space initially, based on the last MTDG and what Sulla said about his forthcoming mystery map. He alluded to a little bit of water. In fact, considering the choices of several naval UUs I think the other teams might have picked up on this as well.
     
  18. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    Well the only surprise is Jaoa....despite being my favorite non financial leader, I cannot see how they picked a non financial, especially with the mention of a bit of water.

    The other 3 leaders along with ours (elizabeth) are the best in the game for setups with room to expand...I don't think UU's played much role in the pick...they picked the best traits..

    The team I would worry about if they were close would be team 4...with their traits they could have 4 cities up and running when we will have 2...

    Team Saturn has a dangerous early UU, but they have to have horse and we have to have no metal, for it to be dangerous..


    Generraly, unless we start really close with someone, I don't think there will be any early wars...infact I don't think there will be any wars at all until medieval era..

    This is tech trading on.....so establishing good tech trade partnerships is what counts most...

    I cannot wait to see the map....we need lots of food to make use of philosophical...fingers crossed :)
     
  19. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Interesting that Team 4 had Victoria and then Pacal as their first two choices. Not surprised at all that everyone wanted financial leaders.

    I'm also quite surprised they've gone for Joao with the UU and UB so water dependent. Obviously they are after the cheap settlers and workers.

    Exactly! If we get few nice food resources we can start pumping out great people nice and early. The cheaper universities will also be nice.

    Pacal is the only leader with Mysticism, so they'll probably nab an easy Buddhism before going for other developmental traits. They will want pottery early so they can start getting the cheap granaries into play.

    We are going to want writing quick to get Libraries. Any early wonders will also be particularly useful for us as that can also help pop a GP. If we manage to found an early religion then we should try and get a GW that provides points for a Great Prophet.

    We would really, really benefit from the Pyramids and I'm sure other teams will expect us to go for this. Thankfully none are Industrious, we'll need to see if we are lucky and get some stone.

    I think it's also worth noting how closely Indiansmoke's leader choices match the choices of the other teams:

     
  20. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    Some thoughts:

    Early exploration? Was it determined if there would be goodie huts? If so building one or two early scouts could reap some very large benefits, especially considering the relatively large map size.

    Inland cities - we have two opponents that have powerful naval UUs. This puts any coastal cities in danger and I recommend that we build most of our major cities inland. One naval strategy I have found useful is to build up large number of galleys throughout the game and upgrade them to frigates when available. This is a very long term goal of course but is something to think about.

    Open borders - who do we want to trade with. Portugal's UB gives them a comparative advantage in trade. So opening borders with them would be unwise. The other main though with Open borders is the chance to spread, or be infected by, state religions.

    Wonders - obviously the pyramids would be great to get. In fact I think we should base our opening start on trying to get them. The Great Library is another one with obvious advantages. Stonehenge is generally not that great but if we hook up stone early for the pyramids it might be worthwhile, particularly if we find that we are near the cultural Dutch. The oracle is also useful but I don't think it should be a priority for us. Its main use would be to deny someone else the potential of doing a CS slingshot. Hopefully other teams will be competing for it.
     

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