Gameplan

[CommandoBob]

While it is fine to regard everyone as a rival (and they are) for a while we will need friends, too. With 5 teams we are looking at either 3 vs. 2 or 2 vs. 2 vs. 1.

Of these teams, which one can help us the most? Tech and resource trading come to mind, as well as war-buddies.

Don't forget that the human equation is just as important as the game equation. We may have the best all around leader, but that is worthless if we make our neighbors angry with us.

 

[Kaleb]

Early exploration? Was it determined if there would be goodie huts? If so building one or two early scouts could reap some very large benefits, especially considering the relatively large map size.

Yeah, it will be good to race for the goodies

Inland cities - we have two opponents that have powerful naval UUs. This puts any coastal cities in danger and I recommend that we build most of our major cities inland.

I don't think we should let that deter us from having coastal cities, especially early as we start with fishing and we are financial. Coastal cities with fish/clam can be really good for producing GPPs.

The UUs of Portugal and Netherlands are good but I don't think we should let that deter us from having coastal cities. Especially as those units will come to the fore around the time that we also get our own UU.

Open borders - who do we want to trade with. Portugal's UB gives them a comparative advantage in trade. So opening borders with them would be unwise. The other main though with Open borders is the chance to spread, or be infected by, state religions.

Portugal's UB isn't going to be enough cause to close a border with them, although if they don't have any overseas trade partners there is a big disincentive to building it in the first place. We may all be connected via land so they may not get much benefit from their UB at all.

Wonders - obviously the pyramids would be great to get. In fact I think we should base our opening start on trying to get them. The Great Library is another one with obvious advantages. Stonehenge is generally not that great but if we hook up stone early for the pyramids it might be worthwhile, particularly if we find that we are near the cultural Dutch. The oracle is also useful but I don't think it should be a priority for us. Its main use would be to deny someone else the potential of doing a CS slingshot. Hopefully other teams will be competing for it.

We start with Mining so we can get Masonry easily enough. I would try and establish a wonder-build city early to let that produce Pyramids while we develop our capital. If we don't go for Stonehenge then we should get a religion to help us with popping cultural boundaries.

Great Wall could also be handy as barbs could be a pain, given that there will likely be a fair bit of space between us and the next civ.

 

[Jimmy369]

I think our advantage is in the fact that we are philosophical. We are the only team with that trait. We need to make it count. Our economy should be up a bit faster from the extra GP. I think a hybrid economy should work best for us.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I agree with almost all points made Kaleb...we should play the map and not let UU, UB of other teams influence what we do...

I am not so sure about the wonder building however...unless we have stone close, pyramids is not a good idea...too many hammers will set us back...

Infact I would not build any wonders without the discount resource, before we have at least 4-5 cities up and running...

Barbs are no problem...all we need is senties for fog busting...and making citie sis the best way to fog bust...

As Jimmy said we will need to take advantage of our philosophical trait...so we will need a bit of planning on where the great people will come from...but that can be done after exploring the map..

As Commandobob said...we will need to establish friends..and plan tech trades....this is VERY important, tech trading will win this game...if we are left out of trade deals we will have no chance.....after we meet our neighbours we will have to establish early tech trade deals so we take different paths and exchange techs...this has to be done early as it is 5 teams in game an if tech trades go in couples...someone will be left out!!

 

[Kaleb]

I am not so sure about the wonder building however...unless we have stone close, pyramids is not a good idea...too many hammers will set us back...

Infact I would not build any wonders without the discount resource, before we have at least 4-5 cities up and running...

If we do get stone, then pyramids should be our priority wonder, looking at our start collossus could also be handy (if we get copper).

Yes, we should focus on expansion first, wonders (if at all) later.

Barbs are no problem...all we need is senties for fog busting...and making citie sis the best way to fog bust...

Yup, must remember we're on noble/monarch not immortal which I'm playing now

As Jimmy said we will need to take advantage of our philosophical trait...so we will need a bit of planning on where the great people will come from...but that can be done after exploring the map..

early religion with a great prophet will be sweet, nice way to keep your tech rate higher than it would be otherwise.

As Commandobob said...we will need to establish friends..and plan tech trades....this is VERY important, tech trading will win this game...if we are left out of trade deals we will have no chance.....after we meet our neighbours we will have to establish early tech trade deals so we take different paths and exchange techs...this has to be done early as it is 5 teams in game an if tech trades go in couples...someone will be left out!!

yeah, and we can only start talking with them once we have contacted them in-game, right? those are the rules I believe...

 

[Jimmy369]

We need to explore first, but if it is possible, I think we should get the Pyramids relatively quickly. Representation or Universal Suffrage will give us an advantage depending on which way we are going.

Diplomacy is going to be huge in this game. I've played enough different games to know that if you are left out in an odd number of people, you don't have a chance unless you have amazing luck. Try to ally with one of our nearest neighbours. Leave the other one as an attack route for later on.

 

[donsig]

I just read more of the article about traits. (The one Bolkonski linked to on the first page of this thread.) The best use of the imperialistic trait is to wage war. So, as cav scout pointed out, we can expect Portugal to be a warmonger once there is no more room to settler (or even before that). Since Portugal is the only natural warmonger perhaps the rest of us will try to make them the odd team out in a 2-2-1 alliance structure.

Any thoughts on who would be our best tech trading partner?

 

[Indiansmoke]

I just read more of the article about traits. (The one Bolkonski linked to on the first page of this thread.) The best use of the imperialistic trait is to wage war. So, as cav scout pointed out, we can expect Portugal to be a warmonger once there is no more room to settler (or even before that). Since Portugal is the only natural warmonger perhaps the rest of us will try to make them the odd team out in a 2-2-1 alliance structure.

Any thoughts on who would be our best tech trading partner?

The major advantage of imperialistic is fast settlers. Faster generetion of GG is nice but a secondary benefit. The team who chose Jaoa, did not chose him to wage war....they chose him because he is the faster expander in the game....fast workers, super fast settlers and fast granaries....he is an early expansion manster.....they will have no need to go to war early, because they will be spamming out cities at twice the rate of anyone else..

 

[Kaleb]

I just read more of the article about traits. (The one Bolkonski linked to on the first page of this thread.) The best use of the imperialistic trait is to wage war. So, as cav scout pointed out, we can expect Portugal to be a warmonger once there is no more room to settler (or even before that). Since Portugal is the only natural warmonger perhaps the rest of us will try to make them the odd team out in a 2-2-1 alliance structure

I'm not sure we can infer that at this stage. If you look at their first and second choice leaders (Joao was their 3rd choice) you can see that they are keen on getting cheaper workers and settlers. Victoria was 1st choice (Fin, Imp) and Pacal 2nd (Fin, Exp). They could have picked another financial leader for their 3rd choice but have gone for Exp/Imp which to me indicates their main purpose for this is strong REXing.

 

[donsig]

Ok, but if Portugal is founding cities twice as fast as everyone else doesn't it follow that they will be stronger and more advanced than the rest? This is also an argument for isolating them. Even if it is not true we might be able to convince the others that Portugal will be a warmonger. No matter how you dice it, it seems to be in our best interest to try to isolate Portugal - unless someone has reasons to make them our prime trading ally.

 

[Kaleb]

Ok, but if Portugal is founding cities twice as fast as everyone else doesn't it follow that they will be stronger and more advanced than the rest? This is also an argument for isolating them. Even if it is not true we might be able to convince the others that Portugal will be a warmonger. No matter how you dice it, it seems to be in our best interest to try to isolate Portugal - unless someone has reasons to make them our prime trading ally.

I think who we trade with will be determined mainly by:
1) who we meet first
2) who has resources we don't have
3) who doesn't have resources we do have
4) who wants to research a different tech path to us

I'm not sure we can decifer much about who will or won't be a natural trade partner just on the basis of the leader traits and UUs/UBs

Having said that, Portugal may be a good partner because they have no traits in common with us. This may mean they have different priorities to us. Different priorities may mean a more asynchronous empire and therefore more opportunities for trade.

We aren't going to tech trade much with someone if we are both racing to get to liberalism first for example, or desperately trying to get the same wonders built. If a civ expands bigger they are likely to have: a) a wider variety of resources, b) higher costs/lower tech rate. If another civ doesn't expand as much they are likely to have a) less variety of resources, b) lower costs/higher tech rate. these can make good trade partners as one civ sells their resources to the other.

To summarise, we should look for long term trade partners that are going for different objectives to us rather than ones that are looking to play a very similar game.

 

[donsig]

Good points Kaleb. I'm not so sure though that we should let who we meet first be a major factor in determining our major trade partner. We can always make a few trades with those we meet first and still make our major deals with someone else down the road. Your other three points are excellent, especially the last. I'd add the personal factor - we need to be comfortable and able to get along easily with the team members of our major ally.

 

[Provolution]

While it is fine to regard everyone as a rival (and they are) for a while we will need friends, too. With 5 teams we are looking at either 3 vs. 2 or 2 vs. 2 vs. 1.

Of these teams, which one can help us the most? Tech and resource trading come to mind, as well as war-buddies.

Don't forget that the human equation is just as important as the game equation. We may have the best all around leader, but that is worthless if we make our neighbors angry with us.

Word.

There is a group there I will warn against. They are playing diplomacy to provoke, and to irritate. I think this was group Sancta. As long as we do not fall to their trolls and gamey trickery with rules debates, we will be safe. As long as we stick to the rules, keep discreet, honor most of our obligations and immediately react to trespasses of obligations, we should be safe.

Every single conceivable action done by teams like Sancta needs to be forecasted or antipated, as they are a trickier lot than Al Quaida. So, as long as we keep this professional with them externally, and handle diplomacy well with more reliable and likable folks, we will be safe.

 

[donsig]

There is a group there I will warn against. They are playing diplomacy to provoke, and to irritate. I think this was group Sancta..

Isn't that what diplomacy is for? I imagine General W will be one of the primary diplomats for that team. I am on the same team with him in the current MTDG (which is has been going on for almost two years now) and he has handled almost all of our diplomacy. He is quite good at it.

 

[Provolution]

General W is good, but there is a couple of loose cannons on deck there.

 

[CommandoBob]

Just an FYI, I started this thread, Turns 0 to 10, as a place to record/log/post/discuss what we do on these turns.

 

[CommandoBob]

Isn't that what diplomacy is for? I imagine General W will be one of the primary diplomats for that team. I am on the same team with him in the current MTDG (which is has been going on for almost two years now) and he has handled almost all of our diplomacy. He is quite good at it.

Being on another team in that MTDG, I will also applaud General_W's diplomatic skills.



He does have a gift for gab.

 

[Jimmy369]

Sounds like you two(CommandoBob and Provolution) would be the best for dealing with a stream of nice sounding words appearing on the screen from his computer.

 

[Provolution]

Me and Commandobob could handle two embassies each, and match personalities with it.

Commandobob could cover communications with Saturn and Sancta, and I with Cavaleiros and Mad Scientists.

 

[Jimmy369]

Looks like the team has two volunteer diplomats! I used your names for my post in the team structure thread. If you don't actually want the job, just pipe up.