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Gameplay feedback

Discussion in 'Civ4 - MOO2Civ' started by Agent327, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    In my last game the Elarians got rocked because they didn't expand, they only got three stars. Then they asked to be a vassal so I said yes and gave them battloids so the humans would waste their time on them instead of attacking me.

    I'm not sure why they didn't expand, I wonder if they tried to be aggressive instead of researching colony ships and just got stopped from attacking?
     
  2. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Ah, vassals. I usually turn that off, since it functions differently in MoO. And there always seems to be one civ that hardly expands at all...
     
  3. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    So here's an interesting experience: The computer is hiding his stealth ship in my star and I can't attack him when he is hiding there. His ship has the bonus against light ships and has killed a couple of my invasion ships that were transporting ground troops before I realized what was going on. :)
     

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  4. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    :eek: Wow... never seen that one before. Stealth ships usually stick around their respective home systems and kill off straying Scouts and Probes. Strictly speaking it is ofcourse a bug*, but why didn't you kill him before he entered your system? :confused:

    * Don't know if it's a MOO2Civ-specific bug, could be FF-related. Perhaps it should be reported on the FF updates ad issues thread?

    EDIT: Actually it may not even strictly be a bug, but related to the fact that Stealth ships can't defend systems => you can't attack them there, only in Space. (A programming oversight on Jon Shafer's part...?) Actually I did see it before, when I had a Stealth ship and one other in a star system that got conquered; the Stealth ship was unharmed, but I lost the system, so now my Stealth ship was 'hiding' in another civ's system. That's one of the reasons I always build a Spy in every system: if it gets conquered, I can keep track of its defenses.)

    EDIT 2: There is a way around this bug: I see he has 4 moves. So I'd lure him out with a target 3 squares away, so he can't hide back in my system. Question is ofcourse: will he fall for it? (Also, you should be able to attack him with a Stealth ship of your own, I reckon.)
     
  5. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I wasn't paying enough attention and didn't see it before it flew onto my star. I only had a probe to detect invisible ships and it couldn't see far enough to catch it before it moved in.

    After a bunch of turns the AI finally got bored with it and sent it to attack my starbase. It is weird that you can't attack an enemy stealth ship that is on your own star. It's icon was grayed out and looked like an ally unit on my star. The game didn't even give the warning of enemy units nearby while it was sitting in my star.

    I don't mind that it can sneak under my stack of ships but I ought to be able to retaliate and kill it. :) It was from the Klackons and they have been harassing everybody with stealth ships the whole game.
     
  6. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Just thought I'd post my own gameplay feedback screenie, as it's my first serious try on Impossible level with v. 5.0. ;)

    A couple of wars have been going on, no race has been eliminated yet, so it seems to play out pretty well balanced up til now.

    So far, so good (I actually am first with Battleships this time):
     

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  7. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Okay, I think that you just have to disable steath ships' movement on systems which are not yours. It's pretty easy to do.
     
  8. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Yes, I gathered as much, thanks. (Although that would kind of cripple the Darlok race bonus, I fear.) But right now I'm just playing v. 5.0 a bit, as it's finished. ;)
     
  9. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    How would it cripple? Just tell AI to disable cloak when they engage during war time, and players will do it by themselves. Pretty self-explanatory.
     
  10. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Hm. What I meant was if I play the Darloks I sure won't decloak unless I choose to. But if it's coded like you suggest it might cripple Darlok as AI. Hm, actually I'm not at all sure, just a bit worried. (At any rate it should be tested before being implemented IMO). But seeing as this is the Gameplay feedback thread it probably deserves its own thread - to keep things supervisable.* (Didn't you mention this on one of the other threads as well?)

    * Sorry, I get confused real easy... :crazyeye:
     
  11. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Again, how would it cripple them if you tell them to decloak only when they want to attack a system?
     
  12. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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  13. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I think I can top this: in my current game I've become top dog, so at some point the Silicoids DOWed. Since they're basically across the galaxy I just thought I'd sit it out (so far nothing happened), but a while later the Darloks followed suit. Again, nothing seemed to happen, but I'd forgotten about their Stealth and out of nowhere an invisible fleet started bombarding my third largest system. I quickly built a Scout, uncovered their fleet, and bombarded and attacked them before they could do further harm. (The result is the screenshot below.) After that they quickly withdrew their remaining mauled vessels. :D

    I've since discovered that the Gnolams (who are my neighbours on the top left), despite their medium score don't amount to much, as the Darloks also DOWed them and the Gnolams immediately lost 2 systems (one of which fell to barbs).
     

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  14. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Tried a multiplayer game yesterday, encountering 1 CTD (while clicking on a unit during the AI's turn), after all went well until turn 110, at which point an OOS occurred every single turn... :(

    I'd appreciate more feedback on MP experiences. :please:

    The good news is that v. 5.0 now is playable for my MP test partner, Zippadeedoodah. ;)
     
  15. Sirnik

    Sirnik Chieftain

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    No multi feedback, but still:
    (all the following experience is based on Standart difficulty Mrrshan. Yep, I don't like to overheat my brain=))
    1) The other civs are HORRIBLY simple to rush. Just go for Engeneering->Physics->Whatever-you-like best, and at the same time spam Probes(until Eng finishes) then Marine Barracks and Invasion Ships. The AI never uses more than a single Marine for defence and usually hasn't established a second colony yet.... so it's a matter of one turn (and three-to-six ISs, as there usually are some probes/destroyers/scouts, all useless) and the race is down. That may be not the issue on harder difficulties.
    2) Deriving from (1): the AI doesn't stand a chance with "Raging Barbarians" on. I have actually WON a Conquest victory WITHOUT attacking anyone (not counting the barbs, of course). The AI simply doesn't see the need to spam Marines(or Bombers. Or both) as I do, and then a Battleship-II-III comes out of the blue and no more AI... pathetic)
    3) I don't know whether this can be cured, but still: could someone teach the AI proper use of Carrier Ships? I've seen the Meklar build a frightening fleet of titans, and not a single bomber or fighter based on them... and at the same time, they DEFINITELY nad fighters at their colonies.
    4) Again, it may be the difficulty... but the game usually ends long before I get to the end of the tech tree, actually about the middle. Well, that's my fault - should have turned the Influence victory off...) IMHO, there are too many buildings giving influence...
     
  16. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Thanks for your feedback - we get far too little of that (apart from bugs/error reports). ;)

    The tech tree is currently being worked on by several valued members, but if I may make a suggestion: try playing a level up.

    Carriers are a problem even in a regular Civ game, I'm afraid; I agree it needs work.

    Since it usually takes longer to build a Barracks+Marine than building or sending an already built space ship over I agree the AI is currently having a problem both with building and transporting Marines (they don't seem to transport them at all). This may be due to the reduced strength (overall -1) I proposed, but with available promotions and upgrades building Marines/Armor/Battleoids is still effective in the long run. (I usually have Armor/Battleoids before Battleships, while the AI seems to prefer the latter.)

    As for culture: you may be right (buildings are also currently "under construction"), but I do recommend to not turn Cultural Victory on - it's not at all MoO canon. (Possibly it should be removed entirely, but I don't want to force how civvers play the mod too much.)

    Interesting BTW that you mention the problem barbs pose to the AI, as there have been reports about "wacky powerful barbs" on the higher difficulty levels. (Again, Raging Barbs is an option you can either turn on/off as you please.) I've personally found that especially in mid-game they become a nuisance and you need to adequately defend your systems. (Once you can build stronger ships it becomes easy to finish them off, but it takes a while to get ahead of them.)
     
  17. Sirnik

    Sirnik Chieftain

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    The AI that survives past mid-game usually survives finally (until I come over, at least}->). Before that they tend to defend with Destroyers, and they are REALLY lousy in this aspect.
     
  18. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Either that or they use Battleships (if they have them). But even if they can build Battleships they still loose systems to barb attacks. That said, they usually do take them back later. (I've noticed this on Hard/Impossible level.)

    BTW, as far as AI aggressiveness goes I seem to notice more sneak attacks. (Like just now I got DOWed by the Elerians, with whom I share a value. They attacked an outlying system with a Battleship and 2 Invasion Ships; instead of keeping the system, they razed it... Meaning there's an invasion fleet out there on the prowl. While I just built my first Armor and can build Invasion Ship IIs, Battleships are still out of my reach, so that doesn't look good.)

    EDIT: Forgot to mention we tried a Multiplayer game Sunday afternoon w/v. 5.1 on a Standard Wormhole map. This time we made it til turn 60 without an OOS, but then they recurred about every turn until this happened after I reentered the game for the umptieth time: the OOS text just went stationary (didn't blink anymore), and we could just play on normally.
     

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  19. Sirnik

    Sirnik Chieftain

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    Short try of Impossible:
    Well, the AI definitely got some brains somewhere=) But still, i was able to destroy two civs in their cradles. I think I'd have done more, but I was extremely unlucky - didn't find anyone until a bit late - that is, I already had one invasion fleet (3xInvasion Ships) and was building another. An attempt to attack Bulratu later in the game proved to be a disaster - well, it didn't happen, but I've spent resourses on that fleet!... It's no good trying to capture a system with at least 6 ships with 4 ISs... And yes, they had AT LEAST one other colony - that is, the one I've found.

    Sum up: no problems with AI expansion. Didn't try Barbs, but figure it won't be the rampage it used to be. The AI still doesn't know how to defend against a rush strategy (who knows, anyway=))

    P.S. And still... I've seen a system defended by an IS(!). If there's anything worse then a destroyer defender, it's an IS... i don't take Probes into consideration)
     
  20. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Funny you should mention that: I've actually seen a system defended by a Scout while scouting. (Never seen an Invasion Ship being used as defense though.) Also haven't seen an early AI rush, although they do tend to build an invasion fleet for surprise attacks - to which I've fallen victim several times. But as you point out: save some defenders it's virtually impossible to protect against an early invasion (same as with the barbs: you can't see them coming unless you actively scout around your systems).
     

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