1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Gameplay suggestions and City-Overhaul

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Neofelis Nebulo, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. Neofelis Nebulo

    Neofelis Nebulo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Because my suggestions recieve little attention in the general forum's section I give it second try here:

    I think CiV has loads of potential and especially the modding friendlyness is a big big good. I just hope they don't use it as an excuse to not make the game better themselves, but this is a rather pessimistic view and thus out of your minds right ... NOW.

    Okay, now, the reason why I opened this topic and the reason you read this is simple. We all want CiV to get better, more civ'ish and outmost amazing and CiV has the potential to do so, all it needs are some well placed tweaks/changes and viol√°, here goes game of all times. I have compiled some features/mechanics I see would fit in the game just perfectly and would make CiV a bit more epic as it should be. My suggestions are as follows:


    Units per Tile and Embarked Units:
    -Change One Unit per Tile into Two small Units per Tile or two civil units (Small units are more or less all kinds of infantry (mechanized might be the exception, but one can sort that out with some testing / Non-Small Units (aka only one per tile) are any Artillery units, Mounted Units, Ships (minus subs) and Tanks)

    -Embarked units count as civilian and can be stacked with military units, though not exceeding the maximum of units per tile (Example: Two Embarked units+Ship to defend them or two embarked units+two subs)

    -Movement of those embarked units is set on technological progression equaling the former Trieres/Galleys/Transportships


    Zone of Control and Bombardement:
    -Every ranged units has a Zone of Control in which entering the respective zone will consume twice the movement-costs

    -Normal Archer and modern "Rifled" Infantry gets a range of one (balance issue explained later on)

    -Every Early Ranged Units can/will automatically attack every enemy entering its ZoC with one ranged attack (50% of normal ranged strenght to balance things out). It can do so only as much times as it has movement points (Superiourity of the Defender!)

    -Advanced Artillery Units can/will attack every intruder of their firing range (when in sight with an ranged attack (50% of normal ranged strenght). Units may do this only once

    -Due to the possibility to stack up to three units on one tile, artillery ranged bombardment does collateral damage (note ranged attacks from Archers, Infantry does not)

    -Ranges are generally overhauled:
    Early Archers: 1, Advanced Archers (Longbow+Crossbow): 2
    Modern rifled infantry up onto Mechanized (see Modern Infantry as ingame): 1
    Catapult: 2, Trebuchet: 2, Cannon: 3 <-no additional movement/attacks, no indirect fire possible
    Early Artillery: 3 <-no additional movements/attacks, indirect fire possible (Promotion only)
    Industrial Artillery: 3 <- additional movement/attacks possible (Promotion only), indirect fire (Original promotion redundant, adds collateral damage bonus instead)
    Modern baralled Artillery: 4, Modern Missile Artillery: 5 <-the latter is optional High-End units with more range, more damage, but less movement (attack rounds with promotion)

    -Ranges for Naval Units behave like artillery units up from Catapult respectively

    -Range of sight does not cover greater firing ranges, Units to serve as spotters needed

    -Cities' Bombardment damage/animation increase in technology. Range stays set to 2. Additional Units do not increase ranged combat strenght


    Cities and City-Combat:
    -Cities can expand up to six tiles and thus add new blocks to itself that count as part of the city and recieve full city stats/abilities. One City can now span the entire 7 hexes with the original hex as center. Each block grants city-tile productivity/food and grants additional boni based on their type (Industrious adds additional production/Park adds Happiness and Health/Harbour adds Gold, Health and access to water should the centre haven't one (allows the building of navel structures and units)/Entertaining adds Happiness and Culture/Economous adds Gold and Science). Cities require enough (first estimation for a fitting value is six) population to grow more blocks. Blocks do significantly add expenses (+20% of the City's Maintainance cost each) and can thus be hindered from creating (the player is asked on whether he wants to expand and if yes what type the block shall become). Not creating a new block will however add Unhappiness due to overpopulation in the city. Water tiles bordering to land tiles can become Harbours. Tiles with ressources can not form into new blocks, but cities can expand up to two tiles from the center

    -Each block is considered a part of the city in combat and thus grants boni. To fully conquer a city, every block has to be under ones control (harbours can only be defended by naval units and thus pose additional danger, if they are some for that matter!). Blocks get targeted individually and the destruction of ones block defences does not lower the rest's ones. However units that already occupy a block recieve a combat bonus (for already having breached the main defences) when attacking another block. As long as the Centre belongs to the original player, the city can produce units (though at obvious penalties as for not controlling most tiles as it usually is the case) and may field them in whatever block they want as long as they don't violate the units per tile rule. Should the centre fall into enemy's hands, the city can no longer produce until either the defending player reconquers the centre or the invanding player conquered the whole city. Harbours that are not occupied by any player via stationed units belong to the original owner of the city until the other one conquered every single landbased block. This mechanic enables the possibility of things like for example Stalingrad to occur if neither side is determined/strong enough to deal with the city in a more timely manner. Key-Cities now pose additional strategic value as they can effectively block a whole army if not attacked sufficiently. Artillery will however still make short work of it.

    -Illness is back. Should be just like in CIV


    Techtree:
    -More technologies are needed. Period. Steampowered ships inherited a whole age and the only appearance they take is the Ironclad? Seriously?

    -Hand in hand goes the need for more respective units




    Those ideas I mentioned are by far a bit too much to simply patch in as far as I know (Modders are surely welcome to prove me wrong) so I'd see those changes via an AddOn, but essentially these are the changes I would see make CiV into one of the greatest Civs ever is added to the already available platform. Add the necessary AI tweaks/changes and this magnificient modding community and CIV can kiss his Civ-Throne goodbye.

    Now, what is your take on this, ideas, criticism?
     
  2. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    27,226
    Location:
    Sydney
    Hard cap on the number of units per tile is rather arbitrary.
    Allowing for automatic ranged attack when you enter a zone of control heavily promotes defence, whilst attack is what should be encouraged.
    Your ideas for cities spreading over multiple tiles does sound kinda interesting, and would be an interesting variation, but would seem to warp the tile system, I would think. I'm not totally opposed to that idea, but I'd be reluctant to see it in the game.
    I definitely agree that health should be a factor.
     
  3. CivMyWay

    CivMyWay Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    218
    I like the city-spread-over-multiple-tiles. It would of course (for ease of use) allow defenders in parts of the city to defend the whole city somehow. (I don't want to have 6+ units in a city just to have each part of it defended). Interesting. (Not that I'm disagreeing with your other points, I just find that the most intriguing.
     
  4. Neofelis Nebulo

    Neofelis Nebulo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Thanks first, I really though on that matter (well, ten minutes at best if I am honest) after I had the idea and would really really [add multiple "really's] like to see the feature make it into the next installment (AddOn or at least CiVI).
    The point with the city defence is actually quite fitting for Civ (and pretty realistic too) as single cities now pose much more strategic value, mostly for the defender and top-priority targets for the attacker. A single full outfitted city can effectively stall an entire army and given they are not equipped for sieges render the entire enemy divisions locked down. And even if the invader is suffieciently equipped, the defences will slow them significantly down and enable the defender to counterattack.

    Given you fully equipped the city of course. If not, they are as easily subdued as they are now. Deployment of defences forces is much more important with this concept. You can for example only leave token garrisons in all your cities safe for borderline cities, fully equip all of them, or none and concentrate on a mobile army. With increased unit-maintainance costs, this could severely effect warfare.

    I personally love the concept.
     
  5. zimmah

    zimmah Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    57
    just get usded to the 1 unit per tile.

    it's actually quite nice.

    tho automaticly defending archers (if worked out correctly) sounds nice. (tho i don't trust the AI of civ to do things for me, i prefer to do most things on my own rather then let AI do it)
     
  6. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    27,226
    Location:
    Sydney
    A major point of 1upt was that it was to move combat out of cities. Making cities much more important in combat and increasing their size seems to run counter to this.
     
  7. Neofelis Nebulo

    Neofelis Nebulo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Actually the 1UpT System was implemented to get rid of SoDs, making cities valuable defence spots is completely realistic. With the changed UpT System like I for example proposed, cites are hard to crack for sure (if fully garrisoned only though), but normal armies do still have the advantage unless they are not suited for said combat. Then it's only logical if they get defeated or at least considerably stalled.
     
  8. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    27,226
    Location:
    Sydney
    There were multiple reasons for the 1upt system, really. SoDs was the major one, but taking combat out of cities was also a contributing factor. And whilst cities might be realistically strong defensive points, gameplay is more important than that, which is why I say making cities more important in combat again would run counter to part of the game design.
     
  9. Neofelis Nebulo

    Neofelis Nebulo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    I see your point, but isn't all warfare ultimately about taking cities? Right now, no AI surrenders just because you crushed all their military might save for their city defenders, which would be logical otherwise as one can't fight a war with no military.

    I think gameplay doesn't really suffer, and please don't think of "Thank you for Smoking" Gouverneur Finistirre when I say that, but improves it by adding more reality. Make the maps generally larger and less chokepoints (and I don't mean one tile chokepoints, the best you should normally expect to get are four tiles narrow!).

    I think we can say that CiV has been dumbed down at best or severely unfinished at worst (just look up the techtree, I have read multiple times one can get Mechanized Infantry without Gunpowder (haven't tried yet myself) and the very narrow list of technologies and units aswell as the general pace of the game (I can only play the game with the Pace-Mod on Epic-Scale as everything else is just too fast to have fun and use new technologies!).
    Anyway, my suggestions are aimed at the hardcore Civvies that want the game to be realistic, deep and strategical challenging, so I understand the gameplay may not correspond with a more casual/less hardcore mindset. That's why I'd like to see it in an AddOn (if not only for the hope we might get this for CiV!).
     
  10. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    27,226
    Location:
    Sydney
    Warfare is certainly about taking cities. Because cities are ultimately where power in the game (and in reality) is derived from. But that's a different thing to them being important in combat. The object of warfare is still to take cities, but in order to do so, you have to fight out in the fields, which is also a realistic move. Throughout the ages, the great battles have been decided out in open fields, not cities. And this is partly what 1upt was attempting to replicate.
     
  11. Neofelis Nebulo

    Neofelis Nebulo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    Along with the increased City-Spanning, significantly larger maps would be necessary. Like I said, the most narrow chokepoints should not be one tile, but at least three or four tiles. That also means more room for open warfare.
     
  12. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    27,226
    Location:
    Sydney
    Well, I guess if you're also calling for a massive increase in map size, then it's a different story...one that in that case I would support.
     
  13. Neofelis Nebulo

    Neofelis Nebulo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    29
    It has been long since I last showed up here (and played CiV for that matter, ... CIV is another story though ;) ).

    Just wanted to bump these little thoughts and see how people are thinking about it now.
     

Share This Page