Games being 'Decided Early' ? Never happened to me!

omglazers

Warlord
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
126
Location
Orlando, FL
I keep seeing how games are 'decided early' for people by early wars. I must be doing something wrong when it comes to wars because even though i've made a lot of expansions or gains thanks to an early war I can't remember the last time I destroyed a civilization, or if I did it, it was definitely post-gunpowder.

Someone here tell me; am I just playing games with too few people or maps that are too large? Or whats going on!

I've read all the rush articles I can find but are everyone's games at the monarch and above level really decided in the first hundred or two turns by wars? Seems impossible to really make things 'decisive' considering that early wars don't usually involve multi-continent expeditions.
 

jeffreyac

Mostly Harmless
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Dec 1, 2006
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631
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Florida, USA
I dunno - I'm working on my military strategies (mostly through the advice offered on this site!) and I find that my wins nowadays are governed by an early axe rush. Each of my last several games have been characterized by early axe rush gaining me lots of room, to which I expand, and (after my economy regains conciousness from the rapid expansion!) I proceed to dominate the other civs. Actually, was thinknig of moving up a difficulty level just to see, since I've been successful lately - though, as I said, it's all been thanks to an early rush... Maybe I'll play another now and try NOT to rush early, and see how that goes... :)

At any rate, I always guessed that's what peolpe meant by 'decided early' - they won enough land in an early war (or outright killed a civ) and then never looked back. Axe (or your ancient unit of choice) rushed work well for this... :)

(Oh, a note - I am still pretty low, playing Noble, so your results may vary! :) )
 

Way_Traveler

Warlord
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
149
Different people have different definitions of 'decided'. It's relatively unusual to win a neck to neck race (e.g., race to get your spaceship to Alpha Centauri before the enemy's third city becomes 'legendary').

I frequently know a game is in the bag, but still have to play a hundred or more turns (on epic) to make it official. Example: I like playing continents maps. If I can exterminate all the other civs on the continent, occupy all the land that borders the coast (thus discouraging the AI from settling on my turf), and have tech parity, the game is effectively over. Beeline or near-beeline to state property, become a filthy communist, and nobody else will have a chance.
 

Iranon

Deity Whipping Boy
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Nov 14, 2007
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Germany
If my capital has good land and I manage to pull off a Civil Service slingshot, the game is won as properly leveraged this ensures my capital > whole empires.

If an early rush nets me 2 good cities and cripples another AI or 2, the game is won if I knocked them down just enough (Pillage for cash, bully for tech. Ad Infinitum.)

If I can spam cities everywhere thanks to religion, trade routes or other per-city-bonuses and my economy becomes stronger for it, the game is won... unless I fall asleep on the Return button thanks to the sheer tedium of managing my bloated empire.

If my continent houses several AIs sharing the Apostolic Palace religion, the game is won since the AI will vote to stop wars even when that's downright stupid.

***

On any difficulty I can beat, the difficult thing for me is to get an advantage I can milk for all it's worth; from then it's just cruising to victory.
 

Bushface

Deity
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Nov 28, 2005
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Torquay, England
On any difficulty I can beat, the difficult thing for me is to get an advantage I can milk for all it's worth; from then it's just cruising to victory.

Very well put ! The thing is, though, that the decisive advantage may be obtained early, in which case a future victory is virtually certain long before it can actually be achieved: I don't think it's unusual to give up at that point rather than hack on to the bitter end. On the other hand, it can be a struggle to survive until your tanks can crush the enemy infantry or your gunships wipe out their tanks - assuming of course that the aim is conquest.
 

Cutlass

The Man Who Wasn't There.
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If I have a decisive advantage early so that victory is assured, I don't bother to finish the game.

I'm desperate for a game I have to work to win. the harder the better.
 

Way_Traveler

Warlord
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
149
Hmmm. I frequently have the feeling I can coast to victory, but I'm not so sure that I can quit the game and be certain I haven't fled from a challenge. And there's something about those white letters across the screen that's so satisfying...
 

The Rook

King
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
747
Very well put ! The thing is, though, that the decisive advantage may be obtained early, in which case a future victory is virtually certain long before it can actually be achieved: I don't think it's unusual to give up at that point rather than hack on to the bitter end.

This is why I find conquest/domination victories so boring. You often know after the first AI has been defeated that the win is a formality, and spend the last two thirds of the game shifting units, and building Courthouses in cities you can barely remember conquering. I normally just force a diplo win at this point.
 

Still_Asleep

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Apr 5, 2006
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Vienna, Austria
If I have a decisive advantage early so that victory is assured, I don't bother to finish the game.

I'm desperate for a game I have to work to win. the harder the better.

So true! I dont see why people even bother posting about their amazing axerushes on noble. If things get too easy move up in difficulty, and dont brag about your superiority on easy-mode....
 

pi-r8

Luddite
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May 1, 2006
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Babylon
This is why I find conquest/domination victories so boring. You often know after the first AI has been defeated that the win is a formality, and spend the last two thirds of the game shifting units, and building Courthouses in cities you can barely remember conquering. I normally just force a diplo win at this point.

Same here. Maybe the requirements for domination victory are too high? Especially the land area one. Seems like I always get way more population than I need, while I take over useless scraps of land to get the land area.
 

russinmn

Chieftain
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Aug 14, 2006
Messages
31
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Mounds View, MN, USA
I am currently playing Gilgamesh. I had my first warrior get promoted by going into a goodie hut and I got another warrior without promotion by overruning a goodie hut. Greeks had only one city defended by a warrior. I attacked with only those two pieces. I now own Athens. (I always set the game to keep cities no matter what.) The Greeks even had a Wonder there so I get to keep that.
Usually in games where I don't get those pieces, I usually build axes or swords as soon as I get bronze or iron. A well promoted army of six units generally will put a damper on a civ's expansion. Then when I get more advanced --even horse archers-- I can usually take care of the rest of that civ.
In my current game, I have taken Greece with one city and Persia with five or so. And the Persians built Hanging Gardens so that's mine, too.
I am building toward the knights and curraisiers(?) and macemen so I can take on Rome and the Zulus.
 

Wodan

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Jun 3, 2005
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In transit
Frankly I don't feel that killing one AI always means the game is a sure thing. Maybe on small maps. For most anything else, I personally find that's not the case.

Actually, being able to bottleneck a continent with an early city, and keeping close borders so the AIs can't settle and you can peacefully expand, is more of a sure thing than having to devote your first 150 turns to nothing but military.

Wodan
 

niels251

Warlord
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
149
Location
Netherlands
most of the time when i know a game is decided i start a new one. Once you defeated the largest civ in the game you can just steamroll the rest. Last game is vasalized my entire continent exept USA. THey have a lot of city's but are behind in tech. THe got longbows and muskets to defend againtst my stacks of infantry. I decied to just because the outcome is so clear. I don't wan't to waste time to kill of this entire civ.
 

Jazzmail

King
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Jul 23, 2005
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Gelderland
Happens all the time, any civ version, pretty much any strategy game.

Once the balance shifts enough in your favor you will have an easier time grabbing even more.

There are brakes, corruption in civ3 and maintenance in civ4, but this isn't enough by itself.
A coalition of weaker civs could hypothetically beat one mega evil empire, because big is less efficient, but in practice they tend to leave the big guy alone and pick their weakest neighbour instead.

Example: I play Rome and have conquered 2 of the 5 civs on the continent. What do the koreans do? They declare war on the russians, while I move my troops to their borders and recover from my previous wars.

So yeah, victory is usually decided pretty early. The challenge is winning soon as possible for a better score.
 

Meester_henk

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
79
I learnt in 1990's in Civ 1 that playing Civilization as a war game is boring. That's why I rarely start wars in Civ 4. So far I have only been playing fro space ship victory. That seems to be most interesting and possible to achieve.

And every game is damn interesting until the end! In last game I had to use military force to occupy a strong culture city from my enemy, because my space ship would have been few turns too late. :eek:
 

Still_Asleep

Warlord
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
152
Location
Vienna, Austria
Happens all the time, any civ version, pretty much any strategy game.

Once the balance shifts enough in your favor you will have an easier time grabbing even more.

There are brakes, corruption in civ3 and maintenance in civ4, but this isn't enough by itself.
A coalition of weaker civs could hypothetically beat one mega evil empire, because big is less efficient, but in practice they tend to leave the big guy alone and pick their weakest neighbour instead.

Example: I play Rome and have conquered 2 of the 5 civs on the continent. What do the koreans do? They declare war on the russians, while I move my troops to their borders and recover from my previous wars.

So yeah, victory is usually decided pretty early. The challenge is winning soon as possible for a better score.

Again: Move up in difficulty if things get to easy.
 

Sofista

Deity
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
2,251
Location
Trent, Italy
I keep seeing how games are 'decided early' for people by early wars. I must be doing something wrong ... (snip!)

You're having rich, competitive games where victory is decided close to the end? You're doing fine!! ;)
 

jackdog

Warlord
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
256
Some times games are decided early with a rush and a stolen wonder and it all just keeps getting better, sometimes its a damn srtuggle all the way, sometimes I lose. I can't imagine cutlass is finding diety so easy its boring, if you are pretty much always certain you are going to win after 100 turns you need to go up a level or play a CIV you are not so comfy with. It should always be interesting.

I do have games when it becomes a bit of a foregone conclusion but not until rifles at the earliest really as you never know when relations change civs start trading techs loads and resources and suddenly they are out teching you and you have to work for it again. I always see it to the bitter end but often go space race as its quicker than mobilising the army for intercontinental invasion for domination, or UN diplo as my polulatoin is so big and I can offord to give some tchs away to get a vote or two.
 

niels251

Warlord
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
149
Location
Netherlands
als enable permanent alliances . I was ahaead in 2 games and than al of sudden the ai started to maken alliances pushing me back to second place and the ai went on a rampage all of a sudden(teching and conqering).
 
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