1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Gandhi on the Rocks

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Lanzelot, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    The idea for the following story evolved from a challenge posted by curtastic: the India Mountain Continent Challenge, a 4000BC Monarch random start file, where India happens to start on a small island consisting mainly of mountains and jungle. The question came up, whether this start can be won at all. I'm going to try it, describing my approach and the key decisions of the game in this story.
     
    Spoonwood likes this.
  2. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Assessment of starting position:
    Ok, we have exactly 3 tiles that provide 2 food: the banana, the fish and the grassland we are standing on. We can't block the grassland by founding a town on it, so we need to move. This will also have the benefit of moving the capital further inland, leaving room for another town in the south, probably on the gold hill. Of course I don't want to settle on the banana, so I move the settler onto the hill 1NE and discover: more jungle...

    This induces the plan to found the capital on the jungle tile 1N of the hill, immediately getting rid of the jungle. It also defines the priorities for the first phase of the game:
    1. Research-wise we'll need to get Map Making asap, so we can build harbors and utilize lots of coast tiles. With 2f and 3c, these tiles will be our best tiles for much of the early game. Also we need to leave Despotism asap, as the banana and the fish provide their extra food only in a non-despotic government.
    2. In terms of production, we first need a granary, as food is so scarce. The granary will then help us to get at least a bit of expansion done and most important of all to build the many workers we will need to make the jungle productive. Also we need 1-2 early curraghs in order to find out, whether there is a safe passage to another continent, or whether we will have to build the Great Lighthouse. (Most probably only the capital will have enough production for getting the Lighthouse done before the AI does, so we will need to plan ahead for that case early enough.)

      Usually in such a case, the Colossus would be a good idea, but in this case it won't pay off: first of all, in order to get the most benefit out of the Colossus, you need a size-12 city. At size 6 it's not that great. But we have no fresh water, so we would need an aqueduct. But it looks like that by the time Construction gets around, we will already have moved our home to a better place, so it's definitely not worth it to invest 200 + 100 shields into a capital that will soon be disbanded...

    Turns 0-10:
    Taking the above considerations into account, the settler moves to the jungle tile 1NE of the banana and founds our capital there, while the worker starts roading and mining the grassland tile, so it'll be ready when we get our second citizen. For the first 10 turns, the banana tile is used, and we build a warrior.

    Research is set to pottery at 100%.

    India_3900BC.png

    After the grassland is finished, the worker starts improving the hill. This is the fastest way to get some shields. Chopping and mining a jungle or swamp takes too long now and will be done later, when we have more workers.

    Turns 11-20:
    When Delhi reaches size 2, it can now use the grassland and the fish for a whopping 6 beakers and 2 shields. Production is set to a curragh, while our first warrior can scout the vicinity.

    Delhi_3400BC.png

    In turn 18 Pottery finishes and we start Writing at 100%. (Don't forget to reduce science rate to 20% in turn 17, as there is only one single beaker left for Pottery! This nets us an extra 5 gold.)

    In turn 20 our curragh is finished, and I start another warrior for MP duty.
     
    Simpson17866 and Spoonwood like this.
  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Turns 21-30:
    In turn 21 our curragh is already lucky and discovers distant coastal waters on the horizon:

    Curragh_2950BC.png

    I decide to wait here for the remainder of this turn and then risk two moves out into the open sea next turn. Even if the curragh sinks, this should provide us a good look at the foreign shore to see, whether it is only a small island, or already another continent.

    And in turn 22 we are really lucky bastards:

    Curragh_2900BC.png

    The Iroquois have Bronze Working, but we can't get it for our Ceremonial Burial + 15gold. We could get 35 gold for CB, which could be quite useful when we need to run a deficit on our way to Republic. Tough decision, as on the other hand I don't want to speed up the general tech progress too much. But then I take the deal. CB is quite cheap and they'll get it soon anyway.

    But the biggest event of this turn is: we definitely won't need to worry about the Great Lighthouse! This makes the game much easier indeed.

    As our scouting warrior has not yet returned home, I temporarily need to increase the lux rate to 10%, leaving only 90% for research.

    And the next turn our luck continues: the curragh survives and meets the Hittites on the very same spot:

    Curragh_2850BC.png

    They also have Bronze Working, but we have nothing to offer them.
    As both of these warriors moved north in the interturn, I conclude that their home is in the south, so my curragh also goes north, hoping to find different AIs there even before the Iroquois and Hittite warriors get there. (So I get the first trade opportunity instead of the Iroquois and Hittites...)

    In turn 25 research can be set to 100% again, and I start on the granary. I was also thinking about letting a second worker out before the granary, but at the moment it takes so long for the citizen to regrow and I need everyone I have for the research effort. Also the worker would already cost 1gpt upkeep, while it would take ages before he has improved one of the banana tiles and yield some return on investment...

    In turn 26 the curragh meets the Aztecs just in time, before the Iroquois and Hittites get there:

    Curragh_2710BC.png

    This allows me a good three-fer: the Aztecs have Bronze, Warrior Code and Masonry, but they lack Alphabet. The Iroquois and Hittites are both lacking Masonry and Warrior Code... So I trade Alphabet for Masonry with the Aztecs, then turn around to the Hittites and give them Masonry + 49g for the Wheel and then go to the Iroquois and sell them Masonry for Bronze and 20g... Then I go back to the Aztecs and sell them the Wheel for Warrior Code. Finally I sell the Warrior Code to the Hittites to get back my gold from step two plus their gold as well.

    So in total I got three free techs this turn and also increased my treasury from 50 to 80 gold! I'm now at tech parity with the Aztecs and the Hittites, and am up Wheel and Warrior Code over the Iroquois... :)

    Also good is that I can now see, whether we have horses on our island. (At the moment it doesn't look so, but I have not yet completely scouted our home island.) In any case, this curragh has already payed off big time: it netted me 4 techs and 70 gold and also answered the question of whether I will need the Lighthouse or not.


    After the worker improved the hill, it goes for the second hill 1N of Delhi. With both hills I can then finish the granary quickly and finally start producing workers and settlers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
    Spoonwood likes this.
  4. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Turns 31-40:
    In turn 31 the curragh meets America. Of course the don't have any techs (I already own all first tier techs...) so I sell them WC for their 14 gold.

    In turn 32 Delhi reaches size 4 and I start using one of the hills. I want to finish the granary before the next growth occurs.

    Delhi_2470BC.png

    In turn 36 I start using both hills, so the second half of the granary finishes quickly with 6 x 5 shields:

    Delhi_2310BC.png

    The worker builds a road on the outer banana, yielding some extra gold later on, speeding up the journey of the first settler, which will go into that direction as there is incense there, and allowing later workers to move onto that tile without loss of time. Usually I chop a jungle first, before building a road, but I think in this case the wasted worker moves will pay off.

    Meanwhile the Hittites have Mysticism, but of course I have nothing to give them.

    Turns 41-50:
    In turn 42 the granary finishes, and I let Delhi use the banana tiles again, so it can grow to size 6 while slowly building a settler. I'm running now a deficit of -1gpt, but with a bank account of 94 gold, I can do that for quite a while...

    In turn 45 the worker decides to start draining the swamp. I need another two-food tile, if I want to get to size 6 quickly.
    The Hittites also know Iron Working by now.

    A turn later, the Iroquois also know IW, so I sell them the Wheel for 30g. They would soon get it from someone else for their IW anyway.

    In turn 50 Delhi grows to size 5 and I need to raise the lux slider to 10%. Writing is due in 5 turns, 116 gold still in the bank account and a bit of the world already explored. Nevertheless I never had a slow start like this since GOTM 102...

    Here my "empire" and the power graph in turn 50/1750 BC:

    Delhi_1750BC.png

    F8_1750BC.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
    Simpson17866 and Spoonwood like this.
  5. jiikoo

    jiikoo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Finland
    reading.
     
  6. Toxicman007

    Toxicman007 Custom User Title

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Norway
    Always nice to see a new story in this quiet forum! Looks very interesting and I will be watching, good luck!
     
  7. curtastic

    curtastic Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Nice job, keep it coming
     
  8. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Turns 51-60:
    In turn 53 the first settler finishes, Delhi starts another one. (Research can be increased to 100% again.) The Hittites know Hoseback Riding.
    In turn 55 (1625BC) Writing is done, and I start Code of Laws. Bombay is founded 2S of the incense resource and starts a worker. The plan is to build a road on the hill 1N and then plant settler No. 3 or 4 on the incense. Settler No. 2 will go to the gold hill to get the extra cash.

    Darn, the Aztecs and the Hittites know Writing the same turn as I do. The big question now is: should I hold back Writing and still go for the full Republic slingshot, or should I cash in on Writing as long as I still get something for it and then go for Philosophy directly?? CoL would currently take 36 turns. With towns 3 and 4, I can probably get this down to 26 turns or so. Let's say another 15 turns for Philosophy, that would mean a total of approximately 40 turns or more, before I can finish Philosophy. Within the next couple of turns, the other two AIs will also get Writing, and then the risk is just too high, that one of the four AIs will get Philosophy before me. Especially as F11 says that I am last place in GNP. (Well, I'm last place in almost everything except pollution... :D)

    So I decide to cash in on Writing now and go for Philosophy immediately, taking CoL as freebee, then do Republic manually, while hoping that one of the AIs will do Map Making for me. So I trade Iron Working and 41g from the Iroquois and 54g from America for my Writing.
    Change research to Philosophy immediately, currently due in 22 turns.

    Currently no iron visible on my island, so I will depend on archers for moving my home... That's going to be a tough game...

    In turn 58 (1550BC) our curragh meets the Mongols and trades Writing for Mysticism. Thanks to that, I almost caught up to the tech leader,, the Hittites, which are up only Horseback Riding now.

    In turn 59 a barb warrior moves next to Bombay, and as I don't want to lose too much of my gold (currently 200g), I establish embassies with the Iroquois (47g), the Hittites (49g) and America (47g).

    Salamanca_1525BC.png

    Hattusas_1525BC.png
    Washington_1525BC.png

    Aren't that pathetic sights? Incredible that I can't even manage the full slingshot against such mediocre competition... :(

    The territory of the Aztec capital had already been scouted completely by my curragh:

    Tenochtitlan_1525BC.png

    Of course Tenochtitlan is in a very arkward position as well, but perhaps somewhere at the river where the cow is, there is a good spot for Gandhi's new Palace?! The Hittite core looks quite nice, but that may be too far inland, so getting there would take forever without horses. I need a coastal location that can be reached quickly with galleys. Here is my current view of the world:

    World_map_1525BC.png

    Interturn the barb carries away 28 of my remaining 57 gold. [pissed] At least I have enough gold left to cover my deficit until the end of Philosophy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  9. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Turns 61-70:
    In the interturn of turn 61, Montezuma calls and demands Mysticism. I tell him where the door is and he declares war. Yes! Just in time, as Delhi has just grown to size 5. So thanks to the war happiness, I can continue research at 100%! Also just in time the swamp tile got cleared, so Delhi's growth can continue unhindered:

    Delhi_1450BC.png

    In turn 65 Bombay finishes the worker and starts a warrior. Need to be ready for the next barb...

    In turn 66 Delhi will grow to size 6, pick up the mined hill interturn and finish the settler, which will found the next town on the gold hill. I will try to keep up this 10-turn settler cycle or 5-turn worker cycle as necessary.

    Delhi_1350BC.png

    Two barb horsemen appear at Bombay's borders. The warrior is going to be too little too late...

    In 1300BC (turn 68) Madras is founded on the gold hill. The extra 4 beakers shave off two turns from Philosophy, which is now due in 5 turns. Keep your fingers crossed... Also I notice that one of those AIs, which are still lacking Mysticism, (the Iroquuios) finally got Horseback Riding. But they are not willing to give it for Mysticism. Strange, as Mysticims is still worth 284b, while HB is down to 149b?! Perhaps they traded HB and have Mysticism almost finished themselves?! Lets hope the price will go down, when America also gets HB.

    Madras uses the mined hill to produce an archer quickly at 7x3s.

    Interturn the two barbs carry away 10 of my remaining 20g. 4 turns left on Philosophy.
     
    Spoonwood likes this.
  10. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Turns 71-80:
    Up in the tundra, our curragh discovers the ruins of a town. There must already be wars going on...
    In 1200BC (turn 72) the Hittites know Polytheism. How on earth are they doing that?! Too bad I can't trade for HB and Poly, because in the interturn my research of Philosophy will finish, and then I could pick Monarchy as my freebee! Not as good as Republic, but still better than Despotism... Getting out of Despotism at this early stage would be quite nice, in particular for the extra food from the bananas and the fish, but it's only a dream: I have nothing to trade. :(

    Turn 73 (1175BC) is an eventful turn: Philosophy finishes, and I am indeed the first, so I get CoL as my freebee, and -- in Delhi Brahmagupta appears!

    Brahmagupta.png

    Unfortunately I have no good use for him right now... I could currently rush the Colossus, the Oracle, the Pyramids or the Mausoleum, and I could trade Philo + CoL for Polytheism from the Hittites, so I could rush Artemis. However, none of these wonders makes any sense to build on our lousy island. I guess I'll keep him for the Lighthouse or the Great Library, both of which would be quite nice on a large map like this.

    The tech situation also looks ok now:

    tech_situation_1175BC.png

    I could get HB, Poly and 20g from the Hittites, but I decide to keep Philo and CoL as a monopoly for some time. Perhaps Map Making becomes available, and that would be much more valuable to me.

    Another important decision to make this turn: should I go lone scientist on Republic, or full speed? My total research output at the moment is 16bpt, and Republic costs 995 beakers. In order to get Republic significantly faster, I would need to make at least 995/40 = approx. 25bpt. Is there any chance that I can get there any time soon? And if yes, is it really worth almost 1000 gold just to get Republic 10 turns earlier? With that much gold I could almost cash-rush the necessary army for conquering a new home...
    So that's it: min-run on Republic!

    And my curragh far, far away meets the Persians, which don't know Writing yet, but know HB! However, they want 6gpt and 12g in addition to Writing. No thanks.

    Madras finishes the archer and starts another curragh.

    In 1125BC, the Aztecs and America sign a military alliance against us... Well, as long as no one has Map Making, I don't really care...

    In turn 76, Delhi gets hit by Jungle Disease. Darn, this will mess up my settler cycle... [mad] And the Hittites know Mathematics.

    In 1050BC Delhi finishes the settler, but drops back to size 2 thanks to the Jungle Disease. I decide to let it build a spearman now, so it can grow back to size and at the same time do something against those pesty barbs, which keep appearing in a higher and higher frequency at the northern border.

    In the interturn the Hittites had offered to give me Polytheism + 22g for Philosophy. That deal is too good to be true, as Philo is worth only 200b, while Poly is 400b. Do they know someone else who also has Poly, so it's no longer a monopoly to them?! I didn't want to make that deal interturn, as they might have sold Philosophy around, but now I ring them up and make that deal. Then I sell Philo to the Mongols for Horseback Riding and 40g. I still have CoL to buy Map Making (and if someone else besides the Hittites manage to get MM first, I can also get it for Polytheism...)

    Also my curragh meets the first barb galley, but it survives. :whew: Would have been a pity, after it has gotten almost around the world.

    The Mongols now know Mathematics as well, and the Hittites own 345 gold. (?!?)

    Turn 80, 1000BC: another eventful turn! I finally found my fourth town, Bangalore. And the Mongols dicovered Map Making! I get Map Making and 62 gold for Code of Laws, and then sell CoL to the Hittites for Mathematics and 352 gold... The Hittites and the Mongols don't know each other yet, so I was able to sell CoL twice at monopoly price... :cowboy:

    So even though my 1000BC stats are not that great (4 towns, 5 population, 3 workers, a granary and a couple of units), I am the tech leader now and have a bank account of 574 gold. Republic is due in 43 turns, and I will rush the Great Lighthouse next turn. (Being the tech leader and the AI being so slow in research, I decided the Great Library doesn't cut it...) Bombay has just finished a worker, so has an empty shield box. I move Brahmagupta to Bombay and rush the Great Lighthouse. Starting next turn, my curragh will have 33% additional speed, and will be save from barb galleys, as now I can always end the turn on a sea tile. (Barbs as well as the AI don't attack ships on sea, even if they have enough movement left to get back into save coastal waters. An important trick to remember in order to avoid ship losses in the ancient times...!)

    Now I thought a while about how to make best use of my tech lead and my big bank account... If I can get the AIs to fight against each other, while I develop patiently on my lonly island, the conquest of better land later on will be much easier. So I decide to use the gold for establishing a few more embassies and the tech lead for bribing the Iroquois and the Hittites into the war against the Aztecs and the Americans. Three of those four nations have early UUs, so the chance it quite high, that they will "burn" their Golden Age during Despotism.... :devil:

    Embassy in Karakorum: 50g, embassy in Persepolis: 70g. After I have embassies with them, I can now also see in F4, that the Mongols and the Persians are at war with each other. This explains the ruins I saw on the coast north of Persepolis... The land around Persepolis looks quite nice: a river, a cow, wheat, gold hill, wines... :drool: -- but unfortunately that's going to be too far away?!

    Karakorum_1000BC.png

    Persepolis_1000BC.png

    Unfortunately, the prizes for these military alliances were quite steep... :wow: I do hope they will pay off...

    military_alliances_1000BC.png

    But we now have three "hot" wars (wars between direct neighbors) on the main continent: Iros versus Aztecs, Hittites versus America and Mongols versus Persia, this will help a lot!

    diplomatic_situation_1000BC.png
     
    Spoonwood likes this.
  11. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Here is my current empire in 1000BC, a minimap showing my current view of the world, my techs and the power graph.

    India_1000BC.png

    the_world_1000BC.png

    tech_situation_1000BC.png
    (The American techs are not shown, because they are currently not willing to negotiate. But before the war they were as backwards as the Aztecs... The Aztecs are actually 6 techs behind: Polytheism isn't shown, because they are still lacking the prerequisite Mysticism. And of course for the MAs I gave Map Making to the Hittites, and Phil + Math to the Iroquois.)

    F6_1000BC.png

    F8_1000BC.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Spoonwood likes this.
  12. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Turns 81-90:
    In turn 81, Bombay finishes the Great Lighthouse and Chichén Itza the Pyramids. Bombay starts a harbour, but not sure yet, whether I will finish that.

    Turn 84 (900BC): my curragh meets the next barb galley. More pirates are sighted the next turn. Good that I now have the Lighthouse, otherwise my journey around the world could alreay meet a sudden end...:

    curragh_900BC.png

    In 850BC Delhi finishes the spearman and starts another settler for the incense resource. I also thought about a harbour, but as my research is almost finished after Republic, I don't need that much commerce anymore. I rather need production, and as Delhi can't grow beyond size 6 anyway and I will soon have enough land tiles for it to work, there is no need for a harbour at the moment. Better invest those 60 shields into two galleys or 6 archers...

    The spearman and the archer will now form a barb-hunter duo to clear the barb camps in the north.

    In turn 87 Madras finishes the first galley and starts a warrior for MP. The galley will now first cicum-navigate our island to check for barb camps and a possible iron or horse resource, and will afterwards ship a warrior (or a spearman for better protection against barbs) over to the main continent. I have RoPs in place with the Iroquois and Hittites, so I can scout their territory. If I can find an iron resource not too far away, I will change my battle plan from galleys + archers to galleys + warriors, take a settler with me and then found a town on the iron, cash-rush barracks and upgrade the warriors. Considering our very low production, this might be the most effective way of getting a strong army. (Bank account has currently grown back to 436g, and I think I will reach 1000g by the time Republic is finished.)

    Tenochtitlan finishes the Colossus. Hmm, if I can make that town a first-ring town of mine, that wonder may actually be worth quite a bit for me... One more argument to settle a new capital by the cattle resource east of Tenochtitlan. (See earlier maps.)

    Turn 90 (750BC): the Americans call me and offer peace, if we gie them Code of Laws. Haha, good joke...
     
    Spoonwood likes this.
  13. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Turns 91-100:
    In 730BC, the curragh, which has sailed eastward once around the world, and the galley that scouts the west coast of our island almost meet in the middle of the ocean:

    curragh_730BC.png

    Madras starts a harbour. As Madras has only 3 land tiles, I think this will be worth it.
    Bangalore, the only land-locked town, builds barracks.

    Interturn, the Zulus and the Hittites sign a milltary alliance aganst America! That means we now have a fourth hot war going on on the main continent: Iroquois versus America. Unfortunately the Iroquois don't have horses yet, so they won't waste their GA in despotism...

    While looking at the map for horses, I noticed something which I had previously overlooked: there is an iron source on the small eastern island north of the Aztecs! I think, my plan now takes concrete shapes:
    1. Send a settler and a spearman to the iron hill and found a town, which will slowly build barracks. (If necessary, cash-rush the rest of it, when the time has come.)
    2. The core will meanwhile build galleys and warriors and collect cash.
    3. Ship the warriors to Iron Town and upgrade them their.
    4. Ship the Swordsmen back down to Aztecia and attack.
    attack_plan.png

    Thanks to the Great Lighthouse, the shipping won't take that much time, and my ships in transit will be safe from Aztecian galleys.
    Note: building a harbour in Iron Town won't work, even though the Lighthouse allows trade over sea squares, because the trade route goes through Aztecian borders, and I won't make peace with them until the war becomes hot. (Enjoy war happiness as long as possible...)

    Now that this plan has taken shape, I switch both harbours currently under production to galleys. I think I will be able to relocate my home quite quickly, so that investing into infrastructure at the old home is just a waste of shields. It will soon become corrupt land... Four more galleys instead of the two harbours, and my fleet will already be complete. The other towns can meanwhile build a few more warriors.

    Our curragh, which is meanwhile sailing back westwards on the south-side of that big long continent, meets the Incas. They are at tech parity with me (as are the Americans, the Mongols and the Hittites. So some trading must finally have taken place amoung the AI.

    690BC: Salamanca finishes the Mausoleum.

    Interturn 95 (670BC): the Iroquois sign a peace treaty with the Aztecs, 6 turns before the end of our millitary alliance. Traitors! I hope they have at least done some damage. A few turns before my attack, I'll try to renew the MA in order to lure some Aztecian units southward, while I attack from the north...

    Directly afterwards, the Aztecs call me up too and offer peace, if I give them Philosophy and 220g. Yeah, sure...

    630BC: Delhi finishes the settler for the incense resourse and starts the one for the Iron Town.

    610BC: The galley scouting our island discovers that in the north there is also a sea tile connection from the iron island to the home island. So connecting iron via a harbour would work, but I think that the plan with building barracks in Iron town and doing the upgrade there is better anyway, because that allows me to continue building warriors at home, even after iron is connected. Production capacity is very low at home, while I have plenty of gold, so it's better to build warriors and upgrade, than to build swordsmen from scratch.

    590BC (turn 98): Calcutta is founded on the incense resource. (Not that I have any town yet, that would benefit from that fact...: no town except Delhi has enough 2-food tiles to ever reach size 6, and Delhi will be busy producing settlers and workers for some time to come...)

    570BC: The Hittites and Iroquois sign an MA against America. Great... (BTW, curtastic: what is the aggression level of this game?)

    Turn 100 (550BC): the scouting galley has now almost completed its journey around the home island and discovers a local iron resource close by:

    local_iron.png

    Not sure yet, whether that will speed up my plan? I can't settle on a mountain, so that means I'll either need to wait 9 turns until a road is finished, or I'll have to waste a worker for a colony?! However, the time to ship units to Aztecia will be much shorter (so I can strike earlier!), and also I can first send the finished swordsmen barb-hunting and hope for some elite promotions, before shipping them over. (There are lots of barbs in the northern half of my island...)

    Here is my empire in 550BC:

    India_550BC.png

    Tech-wise, 4 of the AIs (Hittites, Inca, America and Mongols) have caught up, while the Aztecs (CoL & Poly), Iroquois (CoL) and Persians (Math and Poly) are still 1-2 techs behind. Republic due in 23 turns. Bank acount 685g and rising.

    By now, I have already a pretty good picture of the world. Three AIs are still undiscovered. But exploration makes good progress, thanks to the Lighthouse.

    the_world_550BC.png

    F8_550BC.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
    Spoonwood likes this.
  14. curtastic

    curtastic Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Wow you got a scientific GL... you're disqualified, too lucky. jk But you're way ahead in techs compared to me, I think I was behind everyone even the aztecs. My first curragh to cross over there only saw the aztecs then there was a stack of 4 barb ships after I turned the corner at tenochtitlan.
    AI aggression is on normal.
     
  15. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Hehe, I've been playing Civ3 since 2002, and guess how many SGLs I got since then: this is no. 3 or 4...

    The curragh was one of the first things I built, right after the initial warrior. You have to remember this trick: there is a certain time period before barb galleys (and barb horsemen) appear, and you have to get 1-2 curraghs out before that, so that they can already travel a good distance and meet some civs, before the first barbs sail the seven seas. You being technologically behind, is a direct consequence of building the curragh too late. If you had met 3-4 AIs, you would also have had a number of trade possibilities and remained "in the tech loop". Just look at my game: I only researched three techs: Pottery, Writing and Philosophy (and got CoL as freebee). The remaining 10 techs were traded from the AI in well-timed two-fers and three-fers, which in turn were possible only because of my ultra-early curragh. ;)
     
    Spoonwood likes this.
  16. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    PS:
    I don't exactly remember the rule for this, but I think, it goes as follows:
    "Barb units are unlocked by two (or more) nations discovering the prerequisite techs of the tech that allows that unit for normal nations."

    Normal nations can build galleys with Map Making. The prerequisite for Map Making is Writing, so the first barb galleys start to appear, when two nations (human or AI) discover Writing.
    Similarly, the first barb horsemen start to appear, once two nations have discovered The Wheel and Warrior Code.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
    Spoonwood likes this.
  17. Toxicman007

    Toxicman007 Custom User Title

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    442
    Location:
    Norway
    You're not alone my friend, I feel your struggle
     
  18. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Turns 101-110:

    Interturn the Hittites call on me and are not willing to extend our military alliance against America. I could renew it for 184 gold, but that's not necessary: they are still at war with each other, so it has served its purpose. And who knows: perhaps at some point I need to make peace with the Americans (and turn them around against the Aztecs...)

    An Aztecan galley appears. Wow, that was faster than expected. The big question now is: is it loaded or not?! At this point of time I'm still very vulnerable, so I decide to attack with a galley that happens to be close by. Two more galleys will be able to join the fight next turn, if the first one fails to win.

    aztec_attack.png

    Our galley wins and promotes to veteran, yes!

    On the southern shore of the big continent, our curragh meets the Mayas. They are at tech parity, so no trade options.

    510B (turn 102): The Incas now suddenly know Currency and Construction! No one else does, so they must know a still unknown civ, and they discovered and traded techs this turn. The first AI has entered the Middle Ages, so the barb uprisings are not far away. (BTW, does anybody know the trigger for the barb uprising? Is it one nation entering the next era, or two nations?)

    I pop the hut up north, but only find angry barbs... At least they promote my spearman to elite interturn.

    470BC: a good opportunity presents itself: my galley on watch duty discovers an unprotected Aztec settler right on the shore. And I have already my ship chain in place which I planned to use for transporting the settler, which will finish in 2-3 turns in Delhi, up north to the iron location. Now it can transport a warrior and capture two slaves...

    careless_aztecs.png

    My warrior will probably be lost, but killing an enemy settler while gaining two slaves is certainly worth it...

    The Hittites now know Currency and Monarchy. Probably they just finished Monarchy and then trade with the same third party that the Incas got Currency from.

    Turn 105: my warrior didn't get attacked, so I can even evacuate him -- two slaves at no losses...

    two_slaves.png

    My curragh meets a Zulu galley, but the Zulus are at tech parity with me. So it must have been the last still unknown AI that researched Currency.

    Interturn Xerxes calls on me and offers an MA against the Mongols and Right of Passage. No, thanks, they are already at war, and I don't want to bind me here, yet. Cuzco completes the Statue of Zeus.

    Turn 106 (410BC): Hittites and Americans sign a peace treaty, and the Hittites end the RoP with me. At the moment I don't need it, so I don't invest money into renewing it.

    390BC: the settler for Iron Town finishes, but unfortunately just his turn 2 barb horsemen block the iron mountain, where I wanted to unload the settler:

    iron_mountain.png

    Barb activity is quite high up there, so I assume that the barb uprising has already taken place. Therefore, connecting the iron and building&protecting the barracks there might be a bit difficult. I decide to build two more spearmen.

    Bangalore has finished its barracks and is now producing warriors for the Aztecan war.

    The Iroquois still don't know CoL, so I decide to buy them into the war against the Aztecs again. They also give me 98g in that deal.

    Next turn the situation at iron mountain hasn't yet improved. Darn, the barbs seem to know that I desperately need that iron :(
    I decide to try my luck at iron island, hoping that there hasn't been a barb camp during the uprising.

    iron_mountain_370BC.png

    The Zulus now also know Currency and Construction, the Hittites Construction and the Incas Literature. It's about time I finish Republic and get all these techs...

    Turn 110 (350BC): I have now reached 1010 gold, so I decide to open a few more embassies: Cuzco (93g), Chichén Itza (119g) and Zimbabwe (131g)

    Cuzco_350BC.png

    Chichen_Itza_350BC.png

    Zimbabwe_350BC.png

    F4 now shows two more wars: one between the Mayas and the Incas, and one between America and the Zulus.

    the_world_350BC.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Spoonwood likes this.
  19. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,829
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Turns 111-120:

    In 310BC (turn 112) the galley with the settler reaches Iron Island. There do not seem to be cannibals, but we discover horses. Excellent!

    iron_island_310BC.png

    I can now draw a game plan consisting of the following phases:
    1. Use the slim resources on our home island to build a small fleet and ~10 warriors and collect enough gold to upgrade them to swordsmen.
    2. Conquer a stretch of good land in Aztecia
    3. Build up a new productive core around a palace in former Aztecan land.
    4. Build a large horsemen army while again collecting a big pile of gold.
    5. When Chivalry is finished, upgrade Horses to Elephants, trigger Golden Age and conquer the world... First target will be whoever finishes Artemis (probably the Zulus, they had only 12 turns left, when I established the embassy).
    Phase 1 is now nearing its end. Meanwhile it looks like resources won't be a problem either: we should now have access to iron and horses, and 3 luxuries can be easily connected: incense are on our home island (already connected), there is a dyes resource straight across the sea from Madras, where I plan to send my next settler and the two spearmen for protection, and the Aztecs have gems. That should be enough for running a successful Republic. And I'm sure, more resources will get connected as our world conquest advances...

    The Iroquois have discovered Construction. Step by step I'm now becoming technologically backward... But that's going to change again as soon as Republic is discovered.

    In 270BC the Mongols and Aztecs also know Construction. Lots of pirates making the seas insecure: good that I can stay on sea tiles...

    pirates_270BC.png

    Turn 115 (250BC): Lahore is founded on the iron hill and starts barracks. 5 warriors are already on that island, two more shiploads will follow. In 8 turns Republic will be finished, then I can rush the rest of the barracks, upgrade my warriors and go visit Tenochtitlan...

    Lahore.png

    In order to get some more cash, I sell Mathematics to the Persians for 62g. I will soon have to gift them into the middle age anyway, if I want to get their free tech, so I may as well get a bit gold for it in the process... (Persia is the only scientific tribe in the game so far.)

    Interturn I get the news, that Mecca has completed the Great Wall. So Arabia is the final missing tribe (and they indeed seem to have discovered Construction first).

    And the following turn my brave curragh finally discovers Basra and makes contact to Arabia. They are quite advanced and know the expected techs: Literature, Currency, Monarchy and Construction.

    BTW: the archer/spearman duo up north at the iron mountain is doing a nice job of attracting barb horsemen like a magnet... It kills like 2-3 barbs every turn, but still they keep coming. Good that I decided to go for Iron Island instead, otherwise my plan would have been delayed a lot. But the duo is nevertheless useful up their: without it, those barbs would meanwhile have molested my core, stealing my gold (with only 5 towns, each single barb would carry away 20% of my current treasury...), killing precious citizens or even pillaging my barracks...

    barb_hunters_230BC.png

    Interturn I get the message that the Mongols and Incas have signed a military alliance against the Mayas... Good, they are still beating each other over the head, while I can progress with my plan unhindered...

    170BC: Mursilis calls me and demands 65 gold. Hmm, a war with the Hittites would be quite unwelcome, now that I'm almost ready to start a major campaign against the Aztecs. And the Hittites are among the most advanced, so I want to trade techs with them in 4 turns, when I discover Republic. Ok, I swallow my pride and pay...

    BTW, the war between the Aztecs and the Iroquois seems to be really hot: my "observer" has been noticing a constant stream of Aztecan archers moving southward for the last couple of turns. D-Day should be a piece of cake now...

    aztec_archers.png
     
    Spoonwood likes this.
  20. curtastic

    curtastic Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Wow so you're on pace to invade the aztecs before they even get pikeman? (otherwise why would you care about yourself getting iron and/or horses)
     

Share This Page