Gather 'Round Ye Socialists and Justify Your Means!

Originally posted by Karl Lenin

I am thinking globaly. Your country is only 4% of the world population.

Btw, have "illegal" immigrants the same rights as everyone else in your country? Are they allowed to go on strike without risking to lose their jobs?
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No, and why should they? They are illegal, as you say. If they want rights, why don't they head on over to the nearest immigration office and sign up. That's what all the other hard working and honest immigrants do.
 
Originally posted by Nisku
How about this analogy?

You have a friend that has been self employed for 5 years and his buisness went under. Before he was self employed he worked a regular job and has paid thousands upon thousands of dollars into unemployment insurance. He goes to apply and is not eligible because he was self employed.

Then you look down the street and see the government funded feminist artist collective where they make severed penis art out of there own feces. You see that crackhead down the street who has been able to stay on welfare for a couple years now by going in and out of treatment programs and when he wasn't on welfare he was being provided for in jail. You see that welfare mom who's gaurnteed welfare for the next couple decades as long as she keeps popping out kids.

Now you see my analogy is very realistic, your analogy of the person who runs out of prospectives and starves is not. No one is going to starve in North America unless they do it to themselves.
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What would the feminist artists and the crackhead do without help from the government in a capitalistic country? Maybe they would steal your car.
 
Originally posted by Benderino


No, and why should they? They are illegal, as you say. If they want rights, why don't they head on over to the nearest immigration office and sign up. That's what all the other hard working and honest immigrants do.
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So all workers do not have the same rights as anyone? That was my point.
 
Originally posted by cgannon64
Perhaps we should do it your way, where taxes are mandatory for citizenship? Which is, what, exactly how it is done now?

OK, lets do it this way newfangle:

Paying taxes is mandatory if you want to be a citizen, so every dollar paid is now acknowledged to be fair by the people of the country. If they don't like it they can leave. There is some extra money allocated for miscellaneous use. You just got a report that there are a number of homeless people who are out of money, out of job prospects, out of everything. They either starve or commit crime.

What do you do?
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No one is ever out of options in a free society. No one is a lazy ass piece of rat turd by nature.
 
Originally posted by newfangle


No one is ever out of options in a free society. No one is a lazy ass piece of rat turd by nature.
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*Sigh* This is a thought experiment. You're supposed to work within the bounds, not deny it even exists.

Anyway, I doubt that people ALWAYS have legal means to get money. Sometimes it does come down to crime or starvation, which is why crime exists...
 
Originally posted by newfangle


No one is ever out of options in a free society. No one is a lazy ass piece of rat turd by nature.
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What options do a "working poor" have, for example a single mother that barely make enough money to get food for her children and a place to live even though she has two jobs?
 
Originally posted by Karl Lenin

What options do a "working poor" have, for example a single mother that barely make enough money to get food for her children and a place to live even though she has two jobs?
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Why is she single? Why does she have kids if she can't afford them?
 
Originally posted by Benderino


Why is she single? Why does she have kids if she can't afford them?
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Maybe she was left by her husband for some reason, maybe she got poor sex education, maybe her parents are religious and forbid abortion or maybe abortion was illegal. There are many possibilities.

Are you blaming her for her situation, is that the life she deserve?
 
Originally posted by Karl Lenin

What would the feminist artists and the crackhead do without help from the government in a capitalistic country? Maybe they would steal your car.
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How moral of you Karl, give to the "poor" and in the feminist's case the useless so they won't come and steal your car. Is this like the enviromentalists who want to save the enviroment as long as they don't lose their mansions in the process or are you just a socialist out of fear that they might come and beat you up if you don't give 'em those welfare cheques.
 
Originally posted by Karl Lenin

Maybe she was left by her husband for some reason, maybe she got poor sex education, maybe her parents are religious and forbid abortion or maybe abortion was illegal. There are many possibilities.

Are you blaming her for her situation, is that the life she deserve?
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Ah, poor wittle mommy. You know people make it out of worse situations then that and still survive.
 
Originally posted by Nisku


How moral of you Karl, give to the "poor" and in the feminist's case the useless so they won't come and steal your car. Is this like the enviromentalists who want to save the enviroment as long as they don't lose their mansions in the process or are you just a socialist out of fear that they might come and beat you up if you don't give 'em those welfare cheques.
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I just gave you an example of how solutions that ignore the fact that poor people are humans too can cause bigger problems.
 
Originally posted by Karl Lenin

I just gave you an example of how solutions that ignore the fact that poor people are humans too can cause bigger problems.
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True they are humans capable of rational thought not cogs in a giant socialistic dictatorship.
 
Originally posted by Nisku


Ah, poor wittle mommy. You know people make it out of worse situations then that and still survive.
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Yes, everyone that works hard get a wonderful life in the end and her children will be graduate at Harvard, because this is capitalism.
 
Originally posted by Karl Lenin

Yes, everyone that works hard get a wonderful life in the end and her children will be graduate at Harvard, because this is capitalism.
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Not likely since this isn't capitilism. Most likely she will quit her two jobs to sit on her butt and get welfare. Her kids will attend some low funded inner city school where they will get a substandard education along with learning that doing nothing means free money. They will probably end up along the same track as she does.

Or maybe she is a moral and proud person and continues to work her two jobs until she gets a better job so she only has to work one. She does the best she can to teach her children a work ethic and provides a good example for her kids. Maybe her kids go to Harvard but probably not. That's just the way things are some people have to work harder then others to make it.

Or in a communist country ruled by marxist-lenninsts she works at a factory along with her husband since they wouldn't dare to get divorced. She makes a pittiance, her children make a pittiance and no one ever goes to Harvard.
 
Originally posted by Nisku

Not likely since this isn't capitilism. Most likely she will quit her two jobs to sit on her butt and get welfare. Her kids will attend some low funded inner city school where they will get a substandard education along with learning that doing nothing means free money. They will probably end up along the same track as she does.
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I agree with you that we should attempt to invent a system that keeps people from scaming the government. Im in favor of welfare, but only for those who need it.
 
Originally posted by Karl Lenin

Yes, everyone that works hard get a wonderful life in the end and her children will be graduate at Harvard, because this is capitalism.
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I bet there actually are graduates from Harvard with that exact story :lol:

Are you for real? Are you actually trying to be taken seriously?
 
Originally posted by cgannon64


*Sigh* This is a thought experiment. You're supposed to work within the bounds, not deny it even exists.

Anyway, I doubt that people ALWAYS have legal means to get money. Sometimes it does come down to crime or starvation, which is why crime exists...
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So if a hungry burgler points a gun at me and asks for money, its my moral duty to give it to him?

In all honesty, I have no idea what you're asking me.
 
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