1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Gathering patisans in neighborhoods should really be nerfed

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by iammaxhailme, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,044
    I'm so tired essentially having to abandon offensive spy actions becuase every time I move my spies out of my cities, suddenly 4 tanks pop up when my army is only up to cavalry, etc. Even when I am ahead in tech, the barbarians that spawn are advanced units. And it seems that the AI is able to do this quite easily, becuase it happens constantly. Even when I use the diplomacy cards that supposedly protect me from spying.

    It's either abandon offensive spying, or don't build neighborhoods at all... I hope they significantly tone this down in GS
     
  2. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,704
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    Yeah, most revolutions don't involve top-of-the-line military grade materiel, even if the rebels are being funded by outside sources. Recruit Partisans is ridiculous, not least of all because the AI is positively manic about it.
     
  3. Hans Castorp

    Hans Castorp Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    259
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Agreed, it has basically put me off building neighbourhoods save in exceptional circumstances.
     
    Karmah likes this.
  4. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,864
    Gender:
    Male
    Neighbourhoods aren't particularly useful as of R&F, even excluding the Partisans.

    The main benefit of building them may be to distract the AI Spies from doing useful things.

    In terms of handling them, if I build one for the boost, then I'll camp my best military unit beside it and buy some planes to station nearby. I don't war aggressively, so it's easier for me since my entire military (such as it is) is at home. That's an expensive investment, but you get another boost from the planes and they're typically enough to wipe the partisans out on arrival. You just need to be careful that a valuable district isn't nearby that they can race for on the turn they pop; if so, you'll need a military unit on that district, too. Fortunately, Neighbourhoods are usually best on a snowy peninsula sticking out into the arctic ocean, far away from the rest of your districts. :)
     
  5. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,704
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    This is true, but with the changes to Democracy they'll probably be useful again in GS.
     
  6. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,221
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Michigan
    Just speaking from my own experience I build a pretty limited number of neighborhoods, sometimes none at all. Just figure out exactly what you're going to use the city for and if that task needs a pumped up population. Most of the time you can get away with only two or three mega cities to crank out wonders, ship parts, units, etc and the rest are pretty good with ~12 pop. Then you'll only have to protect a couple cities instead of trapping your whole spy network on home turf.

    At 12 pop you get 5 district slots which is generally more than enough and you get the benefits of any of those 10 pop cards. Most of the time you can easily get that much housing from buildings and improvements.
     
  7. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,291
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Belgium
    yes!! The AI modifiers towards using that mission should go down at least. Building ONE neighbourhood adjacent to a ComHub and spaceport is usually enough to train each of your spies to the top level very quickly (the fact you can use this gimmicky strat should be reason enough to redirect AI behaviour), and it's super annoying when the AI does succeed in the mission

    Another thing which should change is automatically cancelling the counterintelligence during the AI turns. My counterspy will kill an enemy spy that is recruiting partizens, but then another spy from another player will succeed in recruiting partizans on the SAME turn because the counterintelligence mission was cancelled after the first enemy spy was killed. :wallbash:
     
  8. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    14,127
    I noticed that counter-spying protects districts adjacent to the one the spy is positioned in, so I've begun clustering my Neighborhoods together in a few select cities to minimize the amount of spies I have to dedicate to defense.
     
  9. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,994
    Location:
    Toronto
    Yeah, I honestly don't even remember the last time I had an AI spy target me for partisans. Most games I'll build at most 1-2 neighbourhoods, since I find I'm usually swimming in housing by that point.
     
    MrRadar and Socrates99 like this.
  10. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,370
    New Deal makes neighbourhoods redundant most of the times. They make great spy traps though, gotta catch them all! Keeps them from doing any real harm. It is rather silly that capturing a spy is far, far more damaging than killing one because the AI can't build a new one while it's in jail.
     
    iammaxhailme, Kjimmet, bbbt and 2 others like this.
  11. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2001
    Messages:
    2,531
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    As an alternative to modern armor etc., would people prefer units of less mobility or combat strength?
    To properly represent partisan/guerrilla units, they would have to be "slippery", hard to see and pin down. Also available to large cities that have not built neighborhoods.

    How about invisible (have to have a unit adjacent to see), Spec Ops units; Wouldn't that be more accurate? They could actually assassinate (not just relocate) great people that have the misfortune of coming into their sights.
    I'll wait for the howls of denial now. :lol:
     
  12. Xur

    Xur Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Messages:
    382
    Add the fact that it doesn’t scale at all with mapsize. Late game on the largest maps with multiple neighbourhoods is impossible to control. Spies NEED an AoE promotion or let anti-espionage be global on neighbourhoods.
     
  13. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2001
    Messages:
    2,531
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    I disagree! Huge maps and tall cities with sprinkled neighborhoods keep you honest by requiring internal security units (AT/air).
     
    Socrates99 likes this.
  14. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,385
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warsaw
    In the rare case when the AI is actually doing very well what it is supposed to be doing your reaction is "Firaxis, please nerf this" :lol:
    I believe that perfectly answers the question asked in so many threads "why isn't Firaxis making a better AI".
     
    conorbebe, Ziad, MrRadar and 9 others like this.
  15. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    911
    I fail to make the connection ,care to enlighten me ?
     
  16. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,864
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think raising partisans is the AI doing what it's supposed to be doing. Not if the goal is to pursue it's own victory or impede the player's. If that was what it was focussed on, it would be stealing great works, blowing up spaceports, etc. The focus on raising partisans seems like a weakness in the AI, to me, not a strength.

    However, aside from this specific instance, if your point is that whenever the AI presents a true challenge to the player, some players complain, then yes, I agree. The playing base is quite diverse. Some people don't want to experience any speed bumps in their games. Ideally, the different difficulty levels would address this, but even then some people would take offence to the suggestion of play on Chieftain if they found Prince too challenging.

    I actually believe that a more dangerous allocation of Spies by the AI, however, may result in less complaints than the partisans issue. First of all, it seems odd (at least to me) that 100% Loyal cities can spawn such well armed opposition. Secondly, the appearance of the partisans in the middle of your empire is a trigger for some people, just the same way that barbarians are. The loss of gold or a stolen technology would, for many people, seem more like the AI throwing a legitimate curve ball at them than having red units appear in the middle of their carefully sculpted cities.
     
    Civrinn, darkace77450 and Zaarin like this.
  17. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,704
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    Post R&F, Democracy provides an enormous amount of housing to your developed cities; as I understand, that's no longer the case in GS--hence Neighborhoods becoming relevant again.
     
    Karmah likes this.
  18. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,583
    Neighbourhoods just aren't working as intended. People don't build them, and as a result Cities don't really take off late game - i.e. Don't have high pops and lovely dense footprints.

    Recruit Partisans is just one more reason not to build Neoghbourhoods. It's a really dumb mechanic - what with loyalty, amenities, removing Governors, there's already heaps of things spies can do which capture the whole "goes into city, stirs up trouble" without this silly spawn barbs power.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  19. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,044
    I agree. I think a spy should have a chance of escaping from prison every turn (or getting killed during an escape attempt).
     
    Socrates99 likes this.
  20. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    911
    Thx for the clarification.It's a good move on their part to work for the relevance of the neighborhoods. I never build any.
     
    Zaarin likes this.

Share This Page