Gathering patisans in neighborhoods should really be nerfed

I'm going out on a limb here but I'm betting you go for SV a lot? AI spies in my games tend to target spaceports, IZs in cities building ship pieces, and governors (usually Pingala). I only seem to get partisans when I skup spaceports.

Hmmm I feel like my victories are pretty mixed. If I had to guess I'd say a plurality of my victories are science, but that still means the majority are not. My last two games alone were immortal level religious victory as Peter and a Deity level domination victory as GK. I'm in the midst of an emperor game as Poubdmaker right now (trying a huge map) going for culture.

I'm not sure what I'm doing differently but I honestly never get partisans. No mods used either. Do you guys all use a bunch of mods?
 
That's so odd. I know 650 hours isn't a huge sample size, but you think it'd be enough that I'd experience it once or twice. Especially since a lot of you are complaining it's so overblown that it needs to be nerfed.
 
To be honest all spy mechanic should be fixed or maybe even reworked.
I barely use spies in Civ 6. Most of all only for defense.
1. Offensive actions are expensive, way too long-term, punished by RNG and at the end reward is just too weak compared to costs.
2. Defensive actions are easy to predict but hard to counter. AI is always fixed on a specific district in a specific town, but play around it is sometimes a pain (more civilizations in a game more pain). You need the vast majority of your spies to be engaged in defense and even counterspy with a defensive upgrade and Police State policy card will not help. Offensive actions against you occur too often.

I've got quite good mileage out of offensive actions myself. It usually suffices to have one spy at home (usually the one that rolls the Counter-Spy or Seduction promotion), and then send your other ones roaming. On higher difficulties there's nearly always a civ who is a little ahead of you in tech. For culture victories stealing Great Works is good. Sabotaging Spaceports is also pretty good too, as the AI is pretty inept at defending itself from spy attacks, and repairing these districts once you've blown them up.

I find spending the turns on the Gather Sources mission pushes the RNG into more favourable territory, and you only need one success to start getting promotions that make that Spy more likely to succeed in the future.

Sure, Spies are expensive to build, and there's probably a lot of other things you could do for a better reward. But I think the offensive Spy missions are perfectly viable.
 
usually the one that rolls the Counter-Spy or Seduction promotion
Quartermaster is great, very much agree, they help your offence.

If you want to spy then Machievellianism is an absaloute must. The spy discount is one thing but cutting down the time for action makes a big difference. Cold War +quartermaster is enough to give you a chance to catch most spies, there is little point in more defensive ones.
The power of envoys in this game is so large that envoy killing is by far the most useful thing apart from stealing great works sometimes, depends on your promos.
The biggest surprise for me when I investigated spies was they do not keep escalating in price. Yes your third spy costs more than your second but if you lose a spy the cost goes down for the next one... so a third spy always costs the same.
Intelligence agency I find just makes a big diff as a government building.
The two layered approach to actions is quite misleading, the stats on success should be better clarified because even though the task is successful you can be caught or killed.
 
What I find irksome about the recruit partisans action is once I have built a neighborhood, that is the only thing the AI focuses on. Not my huge treasury, not great works, or tech boosts. Just partisans.
 
What I find irksome about the recruit partisans action is once I have built a neighborhood, that is the only thing the AI focuses on. Not my huge treasury, not great works, or tech boosts. Just partisans.
Having looked at the stats of what spies are doing what, I disagree. There is some weighting but if I build a neighbourhood I still see gold and science attacks, the AI also does not just target you, it seems quite random, more likely based on promotion.
 
Having looked at the stats of what spies are doing what, I disagree. There is some weighting but if I build a neighbourhood I still see gold and science attacks, the AI also does not just target you, it seems quite random, more likely based on promotion.

Either way, it makes defensive actions easier. Has anyone ever noticed the AI using spies in a defensive capacity? I haven't been able to tell if it does or not.
 
Either way, it makes defensive actions easier. Has anyone ever noticed the AI using spies in a defensive capacity? I haven't been able to tell if it does or not.
Yes. There is a espionage log file that has where spies are being sent, they certainly do amd it seems to be cities with big gold output so if looking for getting an easy gold promo, go for the experience not the cash.
 
Overall, in my experience the AI handles Spies fairly well.

I've personally found that the AI hasn't focussed on victory stopping actions, like targeting your Spaceport, as often as I feel it should if it was focussed on being a proper "speed bump" to the player. It will do these missions, but not consistently. And not, that I can detect, more frequently when you lead in the space race, which is when a player would be more likely to do them. But that's the side effect of an RNG dictated mission system. Plus some players would complain if the AI was more focussed on stopping the leader, and so far there's been no distinguishing AI behaviour between Deity and King.

The partisans action I notice because it's a combination of jarring and useless. A couple of heavily armed rebel units that spawn in my otherwise well managed and happy empire, and that either get killed on sight or rampage a couple of improvements or buildings. If you don't know they're coming, they could actually knock out your Spaceport themselves, since it has no buildings and so the district can be pillaged on the turn they pop up before you react. But if you do know that's a possibility, it's easy to render it a non-threat. So like all well-managed empires, I camp my military on the edge of my Neighbourhoods and station airplanes overhead. Which itself looks jarring and reminds me while playing of the possible raise partisans missions.

It's some combination of having to guard the suburbs, while knowing that the urban core would never rebel, being able to avoid the whole situation by just not building Neighbourhoods in the first place, and wondering why the AI is wasting time sending it's Spies on this mission when there are so many other more useful things it could be doing that makes the Raise Partisans mission stick out for me in what is otherwise a fairly well functioning system.
 
If somebody doesn't like how often Partisans appear, one can try to modify its base probability in UnitOperations. UNITOPERATION_SPY_RECRUIT_PARTISANS has default BaseProbability = 16, which is actually the highest of all ops. Differences are little (other ops are 13-15) but apparently seem to matter in the long term.
 
For me, I get hit with industrial zone sabotage far more often than recruit partisans. Though I'm one of those players that still stubbornly builds industrial zones. I know this spy operation is yet another reason not to build them, but I will not relent. It will bother me too much to have the AI take great engineers that I like. Of course I've been building neighborhoods less and less lately, partly because I was going for fast win times when playing all the civs (when evaluating them in the civ of the week threads). My current game I'm actually going to build some neighborhoods because I'm intentionally stretching the game out. I actually don't plan on building my last spaceship part until the AI starts their last part. I am curious how long it takes the AI to win at my difficulty level, because I actually don't know. I already have one neighborhood built, and a mechanized infantry parked right next to it.

I will try to get back to more role playing and building neighborhoods again and away from winning quickly.

My biggest annoyance with industrial zone sabotage is when I have a fully promoted counter spy on the tile with seduction and the AI still managed to pull it off one time. I was so annoyed.
 
I am curious how long it takes the AI to win at my difficulty level, because I actually don't know.
Let is know what you find out. @Trav'ling Canuck checked out deity with many long tests and discovered the AI will not go for gold before T300.
 
For me, I get hit with industrial zone sabotage far more often than recruit partisans. Though I'm one of those players that still stubbornly builds industrial zones. I know this spy operation is yet another reason not to build them, but I will not relent

Actually way back when I'd purposely put an IZ for them to sabotage, so they'd leave the rest of my stuff alone, lol. I only used IZs for GE points for the most part

Anyhow, I think the greater problem is defensive spies are so useless. They can't cover a whole city unless you place it as you would with Japan and even then they can hit multiple cities. And if you're stationing spies to protect useless neighborhoods when they could be doing literally anything else, means a huge disadvantage. The only reason why counterspying even works is that the AI is too dumb to not target the same city 30 times. Counterspying should work in a radius.,
 
Counterspying should work in a radius
It does, a radius of 1 tile. I know you want the whole city covered but if you plop your campus against those mountains 20 miles outside of town it is hard to guard.Adjacency works OK and I'll cluster my disticts in most cities anyway. The issue is the AI does not differentiate between campus outputs, any will do. It does have a gold preference but is not guaranteed.
The main thing is if you are winning you should be targeted and it is just an annoyance, nothing serious unless you have IZ's (which currently I do not have) or the great zim which can make you broke if you do not use a defensive spy there.
An offensive spy getting you suze of stockholm or reducing Pericles' culture output is so much more stronger than sitting in a random city at home hoping to stop the loss of half a turns gold.
This is the job of the seductress and cryptography
 
Actually way back when I'd purposely put an IZ for them to sabotage, so they'd leave the rest of my stuff alone, lol. I only used IZs for GE points for the most part

Anyhow, I think the greater problem is defensive spies are so useless. They can't cover a whole city unless you place it as you would with Japan and even then they can hit multiple cities. And if you're stationing spies to protect useless neighborhoods when they could be doing literally anything else, means a huge disadvantage. The only reason why counterspying even works is that the AI is too dumb to not target the same city 30 times. Counterspying should work in a radius.,

This is the main reason I do build like Japan with whatever Civ I'm playing.
 
The issue is the AI does not differentiate between campus outputs, any will do. It does have a gold preference but is not guaranteed.

I believe it doesn't matter which Campus you choose to send your Spy to—the Steal Tech mission outcome is a free Eureka for a random tech the target has researched before you. Whereas with the Siphon Funds mission, the amount you steal is based on the output of the particular Commercial Hub your Spy is in.
 
I don't think this partisan mission is done more often than other missions. It is just a bit more annoying because you need to do something to fix it. Like bringing or buying some army nearby, running after the barbarians, repairing pillaged tiles...That takes time.
The other missions against you are more or less like the bad events in Civ IV: you can only see what they did and move on.
Gold stealing: if your trade routes aren't all concentrated, you lose half of one turn income. It doesn't matter. With Zimbabwe I think everyone parks their counterspy in that city.
Tech stealing: actually good news, you are more advanced than some others. Can't see it really matter either.
Art heist: Even if the spy doesn't get caught, you WILL find out in the trade screen who did it. And you WILL allocate all your spies to take every single piece of art they have. Revenge is sweet. :)
Pillage IZ/Spaceport/kill Pingala are in my opinion actually worse than partizans. But after it's done you can't do anything about it. So you move on much quicker than when they bribe those rebel scums.
Envoys: didn't really see the AI use that mission.
 
Partisans are annoying but as earlier mentioned neighbourhoods are great for getting promotions on your spies for defensive missions because of this. If you think spies are garbage, try playing as France.
 
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