[GS] Gathering Storm - Early Reviews

[pgm123]

Well, how many plays does a casual player need to milk out of Civ? How long to actually get the hang of it? The early rush can take a player off-guard, and can be scarier than what it actually is when that battery of warriors and slingers amble up. They just need to be settled down and realize that it takes far less effort to fend off the rush, and once they do the aggressor is at their mercy.

You're speaking strictly of military. Not all these players are having issues with military. Some complain about falling behind in tech or culture. Or losing to all the wonders.

 

[steveg700]

Oh, I'm sure players who are still figuring out how to do stuff have all kinds of problems. Most games are done with thirty hours. How many games of "one...more...turn" is that?

(and how many hours can we imagine a person to put in if their job is to review multiple games per month?)

 

[riddleofsteel]

I would posit the popularity is the reason it remains rudimentary. Civ V and VI are successes commercially and with critics (both in a mainstream gamer sense), so to Firaxis' mind they are on the right track. Casual players don't notice the bad AI. "I win again? Bully for me!" If the AI could really clobber players, then most would not be able to figure out how to get gud and would lose interest.

This is why expansion penalties from amenities are so meager, for instance. They know players like to have the biggest empires, so they let'em. They'd probably get rid of the whole happiness mechanism altogether if the removal of luxuries from the map wouldn't make for an all-too-empty map. And it's why the AI doesn't need to be able to be good at capturing cities; a lot of players would get vexed if they got caught in a joint-war squeezeplay on their empire they couldn't "scum-save" their way out of.

I am just surprised to see negativity. I was ready for the reviewers to come in, player their twenty or thirty hours, and praise the presentation and fun new toys. The AI may behave questionably, but to them that's just the AI moving in mysterious ways.

Those are good points, and I agree.

 

[steveg700]

Those are good points, and I agree.

That's not how things generally work around here. I'm not sure what to do....

 

[riddleofsteel]

That's not how things generally work around here. I'm not sure what to do....

Haha, right? This isn't how you internet!

But still, it makes sense that the dimwitted-ness of the AI is somewhat responsible for the influx of newer fans. Having said that, I still think a competent AI is doable and should be a right as a Civ fan.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Is that what a casual player experiences? Every once in a while, you get someone on Reddit who is struggling with Prince or even Chieftain. The AI may actually be balanced well on Prince for the casual player.

Civ's inaccessibility to new players comes, I suspect, largely from the complexity of its various systems, none of which works exactly the same, and a difficulty with understanding how the rules actually work. Following the hints for where to settle your cities, what improvements to build, etc., would by itself make the game hard to win.

A more efficient AI would at least act somewhat as a guide, showing a new player how the game is played.

Having the starting difficulty level set to Settler would also be a help. That's what the lowest difficulty should be for, new players. There's no good reason that I can see for the game to prompt Prince as a default.

 

[Isengardtom]

On metacritic Eurogamer Italy gave it 90 (9/10)

Rise and fall got 70 from them

 

[AmazonQueen]

Civ's inaccessibility to new players comes, I suspect, largely from the complexity of its various systems, none of which works exactly the same, and a difficulty with understanding how the rules actually work. Following the hints for where to settle your cities, what improvements to build, etc., would by itself make the game hard to win.

A more efficient AI would at least act somewhat as a guide, showing a new player how the game is played.

Having the starting difficulty level set to Settler would also be a help. That's what the lowest difficulty should be for, new players. There's no good reason that I can see for the game to prompt Prince as a default.

From what I remember default difficulty was always Chieftain. Settler was always training wheels level but yeh Prince was something to aim for amongst my group of gamers but not civfanatics.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

From what I remember default difficulty was always Chieftain. Settler was always training wheels level but yeh Prince was something to aim for amongst my group of gamers but not civfanatics.

Agreed. And if Civ 6 launched in Cheiftain, most players would assume that's where they should start.

 

[Hep Roc Heretic]

I was sitting on top of my dirt pile in the backyard with the Sears Christmas catalog in my lap (it was 1959, I was 7, the catalog was brand new). Pages and pages of toys that had me dreaming about Christmas morning, fantasizing about the toys that I wanted for my dirt pile. Yes, we played in the dirt back then. Maybe that explains a few things.

I was fascinated with the boxed set of farm-themed figures and buildings. The big red barn would go on the very top of the dirt pile where I was sitting. The plastic fences could enclose a small pasture with the farm animals just below the barn, except for the dog and the chickens, I supposed. They could run free. At the base of the dirt pile where it was more level, the farmer would plow and plant with his tractor and implements.

The farmer would need a road to get to his fields, I thought. Better ask for the construction set with the bulldozer, road grader, dump truck, and assorted workmen to dig and direct traffic.

Cowboys and Indians too! Cowboys to tend livestock. Indians to sneak up at night to steal sheep or whatever. I could ask for a bag of 100 assorted figures.

Army men to protect the farmstead. I couldn’t decided if I wanted the WWII green plastic army men, or the blue and grey Civil War soldiers. Better ask for both. They would have a lot of ground to cover watching for the Indians who could be sneaky.

What I had done, I realize now, was to create an analog prequel of what happens these days when a new Civ expansion pack is announced. Here we sit dreaming and scheming while we wait for the release date of Gathering Storm.

I don’t remember what I got for Christmas that year so much as I remember what I wanted. I hope that we remember the reality of Gathering Storm more than we remember the anticipation. May this release be more than the digital equivalent of the bedroom slippers I got that Christmas sixty years ago. I remember those.

 

[Red_warning]

Swedish Fragzone gave the expansion a solid 4/5, with a weak AI being listed as the only negative.

"through art we force the world on its knees"

 

[Stringer1313]

Can this thread be broken off or renamed? The original thread didn't cite to reviews, but *previews*. I think this thread has a misleading name and it's gonna be hard to hunt and peck for the actual reviews in this thread.

 

[Red_warning]

Can this thread be broken off or renamed? The original thread didn't cite to reviews, but *previews*. I think this thread has a misleading name and it's gonna be hard to hunt and peck for the actual reviews in this thread.

There is a preview and a review thread, maybe you are confusing the two?

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but Marbozir has an excellent video review of Gathering Storm. His main point is that the expansion does not improve the AI but does add a ton of new interesting stuff:

 

[ChocolateShake]

I think the world congress and the diplomatic victory, and the other diplomacy changes, will be the key impact of this expansion in the long run. The strategic resources element also looks like it could be a hidden gem. The new civs are all quite great. The environmental element is of course great but it's mostly a flavor thing, and it's a good message to have in the game.

I'd say these are all great systems to build on either for the next expansion or the next addition to the series. Overall there's a lot of content in GS. I think it's definitely worth $40, though I would've liked to see it priced at $35.

Civ is probably the most accessible mainstream 4x available that isn't purely focused on tactics or war. The AI does need to get better at the higher levels, but I also think modding can make the war aspect of the game much tougher. Maybe Firaxis can re-evaluate how to make deity tougher without being as heavily weighted towards early game bonuses.

Reviews to me now come down to how well-written they are. If it's an enjoyable read that looks like the author tried to use logic to reach their conclusion, they're definitely worth a read even if I don't agree with them. Civ accommodates a lot of play styles, so I'd expect multiple perspectives - and I expect the AI will always be criticized in 4x game reviews, at least until a studio really decides its worth investing more into. Firaxis has I'd say really done a great job with modding and that should be recognized in reviews.

 

[Leathaface]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but Marbozir has an excellent video review of Gathering Storm. His main point is that the expansion does not improve the AI but does add a ton of new interesting stuff:

Well Eleanor is pretty close to winning a Culture victory in the Medieval era in Ed & Carl's game.

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

Polygon's new review is negative. Not really sure why. I guess the reviewer doesn't think the time and effort to create new civs, leaders, animations, music, and mechanics is worth $40. I cannot really tell.

Civilization 6: Gathering Storm offers too little, and costs too much

"There’s a bunch of other new stuff in Gathering Storm, much of it pleasing. The new civs offer fresh ways to play the game, most especially the Maori, who begin the game on a raft in the middle of the ocean.

I enjoy using a Military Engineer to create tunnels through mountains. I like improving my tourism stats by turning mountains into ski resorts. On the whole, I get a kick out of just trying out new units, buildings, and challenges.

Gathering Storm is a useful evolution of Civilization 6. Firaxis has made smart choices in addressing global warming, diplomacy, and its own sagging late-game. But even when it’s all added together, I don’t believe it warrants a price tag of $40. As much as I love this game, and as much as I don’t expect to be loved back, I do expect to be at least respected."

 

[DWilson]

Why do extensive development costs translate to price tags. It's crazy!

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Polygon's new review is negative. Not really sure why. I guess the reviewer doesn't think the time and effort to create new civs, leaders, animations, music, and mechanics is worth $40. I cannot really tell.

His entire review is basically "there is a ton of cool new stuff but I still don't think it's worth $40". That's highly subjective of course. He does mention a few flaws in the new mechanics. He feels that it's too easy to overcome natural disasters in the late game and that the risk/reward of climate change is unbalanced. He seems to think the game takes an overly simplistic view of history. He also criticizes the AI for making silly trade offers. So I get the impression that he thinks the new mechanics are shallow, interesting on the surface but don't really offer a deeper game play experience. This is probably why he thinks all the new content is not worth $40.

I argued when the expansion was first announced that it was worth $40. GS does have a lot of new content that required a lot of man-hours to create. So the $40 feels right to me. It really does not matter if the game play mechanics "work". Firaxis still spent a lot of time and resources creating them and have the right to price things accordingly.

 

[Archon_Wing]

A lot of people don't actually know what they want, and in fact would make a terrible game if their ideas were brought forth. Things have to be simplified for reasons of practicability.

And it's actually good that Global Warming isn't overbearing. I wouldn't find that fun at all.