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[GS] Gathering Storm General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    I'd say the Chocolate Hills are pretty much confirmed and #6 I'm fairly confident is the Gobustan Mud Volcanoes visible in the Inca Promo Image & possibly in the GS Key Art. The final one is somewhat of a mystery, but my bet is on one more North American wonder.
     
  2. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Warlord

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    Don't we have baths for Rome and baths for Hungary?
     
  3. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

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    This is a thought-provoking post. Ottomans are a blank canvas type of civ because they were really good at a lot of things, but the things that really stand out to me are warfare, government and religion.

    Personally, I find their interaction with religion interesting to look at, from an ability prespective, at least. The Ottomans were religious and used it as a weapon, but not in a way current religious victory works; Other religions were subjected to heavy taxation in exchange for protection (which is similar to the jizya tax common in muslim countries, except with a bit of mafia practices thrown in). The Janissaries were forced converts and went through rigorous training on a physical and spiritual level (i'm sure they inspired George RR Martin to come up with the "Unsullied" in aSoIaF). An asymmetrical ability would be that they can't recruit religious units at all but that they can pick all four tenets upon founding their religion and convert citizens by recruiting units instead. (And they get a bonus to producing units for each non-believer in a city)

    Another thing to look at is that barely any of the Ottoman cities are Turkish in origin. Nearly all of them were captured from other empires. The Ottomans were a gunpowder empire and were more than capable in using firearms and bombard cannons to reduce their foes to smithereens and capture their cities for themselves. Another potential asymmetrical ability could be that they get a penalty towards recruiting settlers, but receive a bonus towards city capture (and captured cities are renamed, borrowing names from the Ottoman city list whenever possible) and/or managing captured cities better (such as receiving a free Governor Title each time a city is captured for the first time). This is where I think Suleyman could join in, with an ability that unlocks a Unique Governor or some other bonus that helps the Ottomans manage their cities better.

    Granted, such abilities would ensure the Ottomans are HATED by pretty much everyone, but then again that was their actual political situation? The list of irate empires that would have loved to chow down on some roasted kebab for dinner includes (and certainly isn't limited to): Arabia, Persia, Byzantium, Spain, Austria, Hungary, Russia, Bulgaria, Greece, Georgia, Morocco, any Italian nation, the HRE, it goes on. Their only friend (and this is really stretching the definition of the word "friend" was France, who wanted to use them to break the grip the Habsburgs had over Europe (who, at the time, controlled the HRE, Spain and that Netherlands), but that panned out into nothingness as well. Bottom line is: the Ottomans were an empire of imperialistic, bloodthirsty bullies and their abilities should reflect that.

    UB: Hammam or Bazaar are fun, but we already have a unique bath in this xpac and the Bazaar isn't *actually* Ottoman (or rather: it's not *more* Ottoman than it is Arabic or Persian). I like EaglePursuit's idea of a minaret, replacing the monument, which provides loyalty for each follower of the state religion and +1 prophet point per turn.

    UU: plenty of options, the Jannissary is pretty ubiquitous in the franchise, but I think it's the best choice (we already have 4 unique cavalry units, so no Sipahi plz). No idea on the but religous spread or healing from kills are the two mechanics I like the most. he leaked boat is another possiblity, but would be a weird choice imo. There's also the possibility for a unique Bombard (there really isn't enough unique siege in this game, and those that exist largely suck), but I like it less than the Jannissary.
     
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  4. Red_warning

    Red_warning Chieftain

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    I'm hoping for something between the knight and tank, and also between the horseman and cavalry. The gap feels way too big right now, especially on slower speeds.
     
  5. Lord Xavius

    Lord Xavius Mostly Lurking

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    You're in luck, that's what the cuirassier and courser (respectively) are.
     
  6. Red_warning

    Red_warning Chieftain

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    Should have continued reading. Will be great to not have ancient era units running along with renaissance ones.
     
  7. AvianBritish

    AvianBritish Chieftain

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    You've missed the new "Refining" Tech. We also believe the two last world wonders are University of Sankore and an Asian temple complex. One of the last Natural wonders we think are some sort of Mud Volcanoes. You might want to add the new not-replacement City States to the list too? (Although these were not mentioned in the original announcement). You may want to include the 3 new governments too? The confirmed one is Synthetic Technocracy.
     
  8. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    The hammam does make the most sense, but we already have a Bath district for Rome and we are getting another bath with Hungary and would they give us three unique bath infrastructures?
    Other than that many other things are already taken as regular buildings or by other Civs such as a madrasa, paradise gardens, or mosques. And all of these uniques make more sense for the other Civs that they go with in the first place. .
    If they don't get a bazaar, which the only reason why I think it's a possibility is because Istanbul has the Grand Bazaar, a unique govt. building could be a possibility to go along with the unique governor.
     
  9. AvianBritish

    AvianBritish Chieftain

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    I don't think they are classing the "Nuclear power plant" as new... I think they are treating that one as already existing just with a name and mechanic change from the general "Power plant" in Pre-GS. I think the 3rd new district will have a new building in it; surely.
     
  10. Wingednosering

    Wingednosering Chieftain

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    Ottomans are really interesting. I hated them in Civ V (didn't everybody?) so I'm hoping they're more interesting this time.

    Given the fact that Hungary is the only Dom civ (and isn't even 100% dom) in the XPAC, we can definitely assume the Ottomans will be militaristic. I think the Janissary is a given, but we don't have many unique siege units. I could see a unique bombard of some sort.

    Pretty much guaranteed the Ottomans get the UG. My guess would be an offensive governor that specializes in loyalty in occupied cities. Loyalty is really the only purpose of the governors at all in dom games.
     
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  11. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    Probably, but I could see "Janassaries" or devshirme (no, I didn't automatically remember this term before I looked it up) as a unique ability as well.
     
  12. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Warlord

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    It's worth noting that the Janissary unit already exists in the game for the Poland DLC scenario, so I'd be exceptionally surprised if they didn't repurpose that art for this expansion...
     
  13. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    Not that Firaxis used the Huscarl model or the Egyptian Holy Site, nor will it use the WWI infantry models that the new scenario hopefully includes.
     
  14. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

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    Have they announced a Livestream on Thursday for Mali yet?
     
  15. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    Thank you! I'm always glad when I'm provoking something besides Spit Takes...

    The Turks of all kinds came into the Muslim world as hired mercenaries (hired by the Abbasids, I believe) and so were converts to Islam - which tends to result in the converts trying to outdo the originals in All Things Religion. It really shows in the history of the Ottomans.

    As said, the Turks arrived as outsiders in an area already peppered with cities: there was no room for them to found new ones, but they became Experts at taking them away from others.
    Civ has never handled Non-City-Founding Civs well, whether they were 'pure' pastoralists like the Scythians and Huns and Lakotah, or migrating conquerors like the Goths or Mongols. Since GS seems to be emphasizing Alternative Mechanisms for Civs (finally!) the Ottomans are another good candidate. I like the idea of a Civ that, for one reason or another, must capture rather than found from scratch: in regard to City States, it's what the AI tends to do already!
    For the Ottomans, it could be as simple as Extra Loyalty from any captured City (from a Civ, City State, or Free City) and the rising costs of Settlers rise at twice the normal rate: by the Medieval Era, that would make founding cities with Settlers almost prohibitive, while capturing and holding them would be much easier than for other Civs.

    Because they weren't city founders, the Ottoman's 'distinctive' buildings are all 'borrowed': the Hammam from the Roman Thermae (but with an added 'religious purification' function) while the minarets predate the Ottomans by several centuries in the Islamic realms, and appear to have 'sprung up' almost simultaneously in areas as far apart as Tunisia and Iran/Persia. Either one could be adapted to the Ottomans, but they are much less Ottoman than the Thermal Baths are Roman or the Kurgans are Scythian (and neither of those are completely Unique to those cultures, either)

    Agree on the Unique Units: there are already lots of UU Light Cavalry. Since the Sipahi were originally 'encouraged amateurs' (encouraged to raid Unbelievers across the border), some sort of 'Land Privateer' rule for Ottomans might be an option: individual Ottoman Light Cavalry can pillage tiles in other Civs as long as that Civ follows a different religion, without being at War - but with a steadily increasing 'diplomatic penalty' - no Friendship with that Civ, obviously.

    Janisseries are the Default Choice for Ottoman UUs, and there is already a Janissery unit graphic in a Civ VI scenario, so they appear to be the Front Runner. As a military unit, Janisseries are almost unique in that they were a very effective pre-gunpowder sword/bow unit with both ranged and melee capabilities that picked up muskets/arquebuses and became an equally effective gunpowder unit: they were among the first gunpowder units in the world to use volley fire techniques, for instance. A medieval swordsman with pre-combat ranged attack is a possibility, that automatically Upgrades to a Musketman with increased attack melee factor, resulting in a unit that has UU capabilities extending into two or more Eras...

    The Unique Bombard would be a Unique Unit that ties in nicely with Capture rather than Found Cities, giving the Ottomans are real boost in the Renaissance Era (their historical Primary Period) for expansion and generally P*****g other Civs off. Much as I'd like to see that, I'd bet on the Janissery in Civ VI.
     
  16. Tomice

    Tomice Passionate Smart-Ass

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    I'm also came here to ask the same question.
     
  17. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

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    Thank you for making me hate them even more. I hope they get cushions as their UU!
     
  18. drakula15

    drakula15 Chieftain

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    upload_2019-1-9_12-36-2.jpeg
    They recently announced it on their Youtube channel
     
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  19. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    They haven't put anything on Twitter yet.
     
  20. AvianBritish

    AvianBritish Chieftain

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    So with Mali getting food and faith adjacency bonuses for it's city centre next to desert and desert hills (but not desert mountains), I and willing to bet that Indonesia has also been given the faith portion for coast tiles; replacing the standard +2 faith for every coastal city.

    I say this because Indonesia was included in the very first announcement live stream in which the devs stated that all of the Civs included in that stream were picked because their bonuses had been updated; England for Workshop of the World & Victoria's Pax Britannica and China for early canals. I don't recall anyone questioning what might of changed for Indonesia or the Zulu which were also featured, Russia was also mentioned being updated to include Blizzards, we didn't see them in the game but I imagine they were picked to be in it but just didn't show up in those first 47 turns.
     

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