[GS] Gathering Storm General Discussion Thread

[Gen.Washington]

World congress + natural disasters = easy. Just ban disasters duh

 

[Leyrann]

This is why later infantry units don't require Niter even though they still use gunpowder, and why battleships don't require Iron even though they're made of steel. If a chemical or industrial process makes a rare resource into a commodity, then it ceases to be represented as a limited strategic resource.

Then why do we have aluminium in the game? It was super scarce before we had electrolysis, but since we have it it's one of the most common resources on the planet...

Carriers are so expensive would we ever use them in a war against China? They can easily destroy them (assuming they find it).

Carriers by themselves, yes. That's why there's normally an entire fleet of other ships (with various specializations) around them.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Then why do we have aluminium in the game? It was super scarce before we had electrolysis, but since we have it it's one of the most common resources on the planet...

Or Niter, which occurs in a very few natural deposits but was manufactured from the 18th century on in 'Nitaries' all over Europe and since the early 20th century on an industrial scale using the Haber Process. It and aluminum are examples of 'artificial scarcity=ies' for game purposes only

Carriers by themselves, yes. That's why there's normally an entire fleet of other ships (with various specializations) around them.

I have argued, and Martin van Crefeld in Age of Air Power much more cogently, that aircraft carriers specifically and manned combat aircraft more generally are obsolete: the machines and their pilots/crews are too expensive and too big a target and have become utterly non-cost effective. A Drone or fleet of drones carrying stand-off weapons can do the job of the carrier without risking any expensively-trained personnel, and a single combat strike aircraft now also requires a half-dozen other aircraft flying anti-air defense, surveillance, early warning, anti-electronics and other support missions. 'Smart' missiles and remote-controlled aerial vehicles (drones again) are rapidly taking over many of those missions.

 

[ChocolateShake]

It says "This content requires the base game Sid Meier's Civilization VI on Steam in order to play" on the Steam store page, so it shouldn't require R&F. IIRC if you bought only BNW in case of Civ V, you got all the mechanics introduced in G&K, but missed the civs.

It is tradition for the Expansion Packs to contain all of the previous expansion pack apart from Scenarios, Leaders and Civilizations. So you'll be getting all the new Natural Wonders (I think, I can't remember how Civ 5 handled that), City States*, and few others. So you won't need RF for GS, GS will come with most of RF.

Interesting, thanks! This makes a lot of sense. So I suppose a third expansion wouldn't be too much of an issue if they're indeed planning on one. I do have Rise and Fall, will be curious to see the changes

The concept of a unique governor will likely also open up modding possibilities to have a unique set of governors for each civ, that should be great too.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Interesting, thanks! This makes a lot of sense. So I suppose a third expansion wouldn't be too much of an issue if they're indeed planning on one. I do have Rise and Fall, will be curious to see the changes

The concept of a unique governor will likely also open up modding possibilities to have a unique set of governors for each civ, that should be great too.

Yes, there's a lot of potential modding wise which is very exciting, My Hidden Agenda Mod felt so limited before Rise and Fall came out and the subsequent EP made so many cool changes I could implement.

 

[Gen.Washington]

On the subject of drones vs manned pilots, the one thing a drone will never beat an f22 pilot at is a dogfight. And for the time being it’s cheaper to maintain human pilots then create full sized bombers with drone technology. As far as carriers, a carrier strike group is immune to anything other than a nuke and won’t be obsolite for another 100 years. Especially in asymmetrical warfare.

 

[Meluhhan]

So, what is the chance that we will get a First Look next week? And will we get clues for the leader to be revealed tomorrow like the ones that preceded Rise and Fall first looks?

 

[VermelhoRed]

Some civ is going to get a unit governor, people have suggested Sweden, but I think Ottomans would be a great choice.

They had the system where a bey(governor/lord) controlled far-flung areas of the empire, called beyliks, so Ottomans could have UA called Beylik where they could get an extra governor, and maybe other governor bonuses too.

Not the Otttomans' UA, but Suleiman's personal UA, with Roxelana being the unique governor!

 

[Disgustipated]

carrier strike group is immune to anything other than a nuke

China already has carrier killer missiles and I believe torpedos as well. Of course the missile has to find its target. The AEGIS system has never been truly tested. I do believe it can be overwhelmed if enough missiles come in. And I do believe China and maybe Russia can take a carrier out, especially if we aren't ready.

 

[Gen.Washington]

China already has carrier killer missiles and I believe torpedos as well. Of course the missile has to find its target. The AEGIS system has never been truly tested. I do believe it can be overwhelmed if enough missiles come in. And I do believe China and maybe Russia can take a carrier out, especially if we aren't ready.

The issue is their missiles have never been observed by the west, so it’s a game of “we have a super missile than can kill anything you have” it’s also estimated that their anti carrier weapons are far too inaccurate to hit a carrier.

 

[donald23]

About the unique governor - does this imply that Rise and Fall might be required for Gathering Storm, or is it possible they'll integrate a basic governor system for that civ? Is there are precedent for an expansion pack requiring another? Was just thinking about this.

With Civ5, BNW came with all the mechanics from G+K, but no civ's or scenarios.

Today Ed tweeted that GS will be the same regarding the mechanics for R&F:
https://twitter.com/EdBeach23/status/1066731882786754561

 

[Haig]

Now to read 58 pages + screenshot thread.

THIS is the core of civfanatics right here ^

 

[God of Kings]

It would be controversial if an expansion pack requires another expansion pack.

Most games with multiple expansion packs have the later expansion pack include the mechanics of the previous expansion pack.

In Civ's case, the mechanics of BNW include those in G&K, but not the civs or the scenarios from G&K (though Ethiopia from G&K is included in BNW). BNW is perfectly playable for those without G&K.

In WoW's case, whenever a new expansion pack is released, all content from previous expansion packs are added to the base game and WoW has several expansion packs (to be fair, it's a subscription-based game).

There is thus a major difference between the base game and the vanilla. The base game can include added content in the future, while the vanilla game is essentially the base game at initial release.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That would be a terrible design decision.

Horses are a very special case in terms of strategic resources - they’re sort of “strategic resource light”, in that you can see them from turn one, and they apply to the same unit line for two different eras (Light Cav ie horsemen / classical and cavalry / industrial) and that unit line doesn’t even need a resource for its third upgrade. Making horses the same as say iron would be lame.

My complaint is from a realistic standpoint.
Where were the horses in the first place? They clearly weren't under the ground like the other strategic resources.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Probably stay silent until either a 3rd expansion or DLC or the Complete Edition is announced.

Is there a reason to expect another expansion? There's already a lot of features.

 

[Disgustipated]

Where were the horses in the first place? They clearly weren't under the ground like the other strategic resources.

It's likely that people can "see" the horses roaming around, but don't have the intelligence and ingenuity to realize the usefulness of those horses. Even though we current day humans know what horses can do, your people in the year 4000 B.C. do not. That's how I choose to see it anyhow.

 

[Myomoto]

If they do a First Look this week, what're the odds we can convince Ed Beach to show the Civilopedia again?

 

[UWHabs]

It's likely that people can "see" the horses roaming around, but don't have the intelligence and ingenuity to realize the usefulness of those horses. Even though we current day humans know what horses can do, your people in the year 4000 B.C. do not. That's how I choose to see it anyhow.

Yep. Same reason that you could likely "see" iron around, but until you learn a little bit about metal working, you don't realize that it can be used as a weapon. Plus, from a gameplay perspective, making all strategic resources hidden is nice and consistent.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

My complaint is from a realistic standpoint.
Where were the horses in the first place? They clearly weren't under the ground like the other strategic resources.

They're in the same place as the zebras, elands, and elk. Herds of large grazing animals, good for hunting and eating. Then people discovered you could teach some of them to pull a cart: cattle, auruchs, zebu, yaks, donkeys, reindeer, etc.

Finally, someone discovered you could breed one of them to be strong enough to tolerate a rider. It's only at that point that the horse attained special status.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It's likely that people can "see" the horses roaming around, but don't have the intelligence and ingenuity to realize the usefulness of those horses. Even though we current day humans know what horses can do, your people in the year 4000 B.C. do not. That's how I choose to see it anyhow.

Yep. Same reason that you could likely "see" iron around, but until you learn a little bit about metal working, you don't realize that it can be used as a weapon. Plus, from a gameplay perspective, making all strategic resources hidden is nice and consistent.

I could understand it if animal husbandry revealed all of the other animal resources as well.
I can understand iron though being revealed later, and as a result you have to literally build a mine to extract it from the ground.