1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[GS] Gathering Storm General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
    Philippines
    The writer skipped mentioning about the Grievance system which might solve his woes about AI being friendly then become a sudden enemy the next turn.
     
    Leyrann likes this.
  2. Cerilis

    Cerilis Not Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    2,841
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Germany
    "You think you do, but you dont"?
     
  3. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,618
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    I think people are perhaps stacking too many hopes on the grievance system. It may alleviate some of the ills of the "warmongering" penalties, but I haven't seen any reason to believe that it will change the AI's basic behavior. In the 29-Nov playthrough, it didn't prevent Jadwiga from getting up in the player's grill in the first place, nor did it prevent Pedro from conquering a city-state.
     
    Guandao, Kjimmet, craney1987 and 2 others like this.
  4. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,885
    Meh.

    Let’s see what the game looks like after GS. So far, it looks like FXS have taken a stab at fixing a lot of long standing issues. And some of the most recent tweaks may be more powerful that they look when coupled with the changes in RnF - eg looks like resources will restrict unit numbers more, which may make it harder to push around the AI; but it could actually be a much greater limiter combined with loyalty.

    It’s possible after GS that the only real remaining big issues left after GS are AI, pacing, UI and flavour. On the first two, AI and pacing, these may be easier to improve once the rules are more locked in, so it may be FXS can make more gains with these once GS is out (particularly if they keep working on the game while getting a few more dlc out or a third expansion); on the second two, UI and flavour, it looks like a lot of work is being done here too - seriously guys, they’ve added a production queue!

    More and more I think the frustrations of Civ VI come down to this: people’s expectations for video games are so staggeringly huge, that the development time required to reach those expectations becomes crazy. I’m not saying people want or much - their consumers, they can want whatever they want and that’s fine - but I’m saying they have to accept the time scales required to give them what they want are incredibly extended.

    I’m still pretty excited by GS. Maori have made me even more excited. Yeah, they look like a fun and different Civ that would be fun to play. But the really exciting thing is how they show how much flexibility and creativity possible within the current rule set. I really think Civ VI could be the best version of Civ by a large, large margin.


    [edit: on flavour, I think the only thing still bugging me is just the Gov Plaza and Governors being a bit sterile, and Legacy Cards being a bit limited. Hopefully that’ll get addressed in a DLC. I think it would be just so easy to make these things a little more punchy in terms of flavour. Honestly: why they don’t have more alternate pictures for Govenors, make Gov Plaza buildings separate districts that are built outside and adjacent to your Gov Plaza (with GP maybe just having one actual building, eg Parliament or Congress), and Tier 2 and 3 Governments don’t have 2 and 3 Legacy Cards instead of just one each, is totally totally beyond me. ]
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    WorldWarIV, Haig, Kjimmet and 3 others like this.
  5. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,115
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    UK
    *twitch*
     
    Kjimmet, Cerilis and Duuk like this.
  6. Leathaface

    Leathaface Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,720
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    With the AI starting with 3 settlers on Deity I can see big problems with the Maori finding a suitable settling location due to spots being took up quickly, and this is before loyalty pressure. Maybe Firaxis are hinting the AI will only have 2 settler on Deity now?

    I'd like another Civ to have the ability to use Tundra. It's really cool that Russia gets bonuses from a large section of a map that no other Civ gets.
     
  7. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Prince

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Warsaw
    It is ok when someone doesn't like a game, idea or direction of the changes. But you should know as a reader why does he not like it. After reading this text I have no idea what is his problem with a game. So it is even hard to enter into polemics.
     
  8. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,912
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan, USA
    ...except... you know... My Blizz launcher says... sorry, off topic.
     
    Cerilis likes this.
  9. bbbt

    bbbt Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,965
    Is this like at actual professionalish game review site? It seems very bizarre if so. It would make sense if he had actually reviewed GS and then decided this - or done so after an R&F review. But to do so from a few marketing info of the expansion seems odd.
     
  10. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
    Philippines
    I agree. We should not put too much hope. That is why I mentioned the Grievance system might solve some AI issues. At least the devs tried, no?
     
  11. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,277
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    I'm pretty sure a tunnel will count as an improvement, not a feature. (Features are things like forest, swamp, and oasis.)

    I second that! There appear to be two good candidates in this expansion, if the leak is accurate.
     
    Eagle Pursuit likes this.
  12. Lord Xavius

    Lord Xavius Mostly Lurking

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    570
    Location:
    The Internet
    The part of Sweden that qualifies as tundra is actually really quite minor, just a tiny speck at the northernmost end of the country. Canada would be a better fit if they want to make more use of such terrain.

    (What we do have is forests, they cover literally more than half the country.)
     
    Guandao, Weraptor and Siptah like this.
  13. MisterBoomBoom

    MisterBoomBoom King

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    639
    Sure...but I'm thinking if they are rethinking mountains, allowing them to be moved into and worked(?) or improved, perhaps they are more similar to forest and swamps than the "impassable" hexes they once were known to be. Just a thought.
     
  14. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,899
    Gender:
    Male
    Maori are going to highlight a number of game design decisions that I hope get a re-think in Civ 7. Religion being something you found and spread, as opposed to something you adopt and spread, is one of them.


    As long as those turns aren't: water, water, water, more water


    Better yet would be 1 settler and a bunch of other bonuses that escalate over the course of the game. Another game design decision highlighted by the Maori: the early game for Deity isn't harder, it's essentially chopped off, as racing to explore the map is effectively removed.


    Nobody uses tundra, including Russians.


    We live in the forested part of our country, too.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  15. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,704
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    I 100% endorse this.

    I endorse this, too. Tundra is worthless land for farming and also worthless land for large-scale pastoralism (it's fine for small scale pastoralism or hunting/gathering--and, surprise, the people who lived in the tundra were either small-scale pastoralists or hunter/gatherers). There's a very good reason we have no civs from the tundra: because there were none.
     
    Guandao, Kjimmet, tedhebert and 2 others like this.
  16. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    14,589
    I would be quite satisfied to leave Tundra and Ice as the ultimate marginal terrain that no civ flourishes in.
     
    Guandao, Trav'ling Canuck and Zaarin like this.
  17. Lord Xavius

    Lord Xavius Mostly Lurking

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    570
    Location:
    The Internet
    As someone who's not remotely a fan of cold weather, I'm not going to disagree with this sentiment. :mischief:
     
    Guandao and Alexander's Hetaroi like this.
  18. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,899
    Gender:
    Male
    Ice is actually better than tundra. The Inuit and related groups have been able to develop cultures that exploit the ocean resources accessible from the ice and supplement it with summer forays into the tundra.

    Then there's a wide span of barren land, i.e. tundra, and it's only once you reach the tree line that human settlement is possible again.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  19. Sagax

    Sagax Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,209
    Not necessarily - depends on what exactly one disliked in R&F, and whether GS fixes those issues (or at least doesn’t make them worse).

    I, personally, dislike R&F mostly because some new mechanics are more about slapping your wrists with limitations, rather than expanding your gameplay options. The Loyalty system in particular - it serves no other purpose than to give you more stuff to micromanage, force you to build more stuff (while production costs and district limits remain unchanged), all while representing a huge and questionable leap in logic (“City too close to the other civs = doomed to revolt”, even if it’s still fairly close to your own territory. But hey, we tweaked England and Spain, because God forbid players create ambitious colonies with other civs!). And the Era score, to a lesser degree: my people are extatic, and I’m a runaway for SV/CV, but nope: welcome to the dark age because time has run out, and that WIP district 3 turns away from completion was that big of a deal.

    So far, GS seems to truly offer you more options for empire-building, rather than shackle you with mechanics that are limitations in disguise (yes, I rarely chop). And, while it doesn’t seem to address the Loyalty system, at least they are not trying to dive deep and make it worse.

    What, don’t you guys have phones?
     
    Kjimmet, Siptah and Duuk like this.
  20. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    2,778
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    I make the notion that Canada should get the forest benefits.
    As for Tundra and snow I wonder if we could get graphical updates to tribal villages with igloos in that part of the map?
    The only reason why I would even consider seeing an Inuit Civ is I want to see what an igloo city would look like and that could be arranged above.
     
    Trav'ling Canuck likes this.

Share This Page