[GS] Gathering Storm Leader Ability Elimination Thread

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15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [30]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [18]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [28]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [31]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [23]
41. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [-1] (2 - 3) War, war, war. That's all Tomyris is good for. Boring.
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [10] (9 + 1) Sigh. I don't think there's anything left to say. This ability is obviously one of the best.
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [27] (30 - 3) This is now top 7 at worst likely top 2. Is it really top 2? Its higher than Monty really? Almost as good as Pericles? Better than China? It is now firmly top 10 does it really need to be top 2 to satisfy the Cinderella story narrative being pushed here?
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [18]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [28]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [32] (31 + 1) Best leader ability in the game unless you take all the city states out in your map generation.:crazyeye:
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [23]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [10]
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [27-3=24]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [18]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [28]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [32]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [23]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [10+1=11]

Harald's ability is great (they all are at this point) but it seems everybody forgot half of it works only in water warfare which is bad niche overall in this game. Of course Harald makes this niche much better but it is still niche. And second half of this ability, pillage, requires constant agressive warfare which is not nearly as universal playstyle as few other abilities here.

I am fan of Trajan-style abilities which are universally working early snowball speed boosts.
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [24]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [15] = 18 - 3 Too situational as I discussed before. City state's armies may take 20 turns just to get them where you need them. Under the right conditions fantastic, but those conditions are not guaranteed. Where as someone like Trajan's ability provides no matter what the condition as well as Qin Shi, Suleiman, Montezuma, etc.
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [28]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [32]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [23]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [12] = 11 + 1 Boring, but consistent unlike what I discussed above.
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [24]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [15]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [28]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29] (32 - 3) Pretty overrated. +5% Culture for 6 Envoys is a pretty hard exchange rate, I doubt this beats the other remaining 6 left here.
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [23]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [13] (12 + 1) Unmatchable culture generation in the early game. The fact that this is the lowest ability left here is alarming.
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25] = 24 + 1 Insane early, strong coastal pillaging that just got buffed with more, better sea maps and better coastal cities.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [15]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [28]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29] You don't need 6 envoys to be suzerain most of the time....
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [23]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [10] (13 - 3) Totally matchable early culture generation. First-meet or complete one envoy quest for a culture city state. Play Gorgo and clear barb camps, or better, conquer a city state. This is not a "revenge" vote. This is just an overrated ability that does not scale, is not the best even in its own class, and is also the most boring ability left.
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [15]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [29] 28 + 1 my personal favourite
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [23]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [7] (10 - 3) boring, matchable, overrated, easily overtaken, only helps early game.
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [22] = 25 - 3. In my experience it's a nice added bonus but not that powerful.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [16] = 15 + 1. My favorite. Fun, unique, and strong.
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [29]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [23]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [7]
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23=22+1] Best of the best. It shall be top 1 for me. Science/Culture is much worthwhile than Gold/faith, and Norway have an extremely different way of game play.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [13=16-3] At least Trajan's column is much better than this, isn't it?
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [29]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [23]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [7]

Moderator Action: Please follow the rules, one vote ever 24 hours. This is only 12 hours since you last voted. Please do not vote again for 36 hours. leif
 
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15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [13]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30] (29+1) Easily overwhelms all foes.
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [20] (23-3) Good but takes away valueable governor promotions.
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [7]
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [24=23+1] I like how in vanilla Norway was widely seen as one of the worst civs, but FXS has buffed this Ability to giving them some actual power. The pillaging bonus, when initially released, was available for everyone, and it was absolutely broken. FXS just decided to remove it and keep it for Harald.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [13]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [17] (20-3) Half of this bonus is access to the Janissary, so the power should be based on the unique unit and not so much the leader Ability. This leaves the governor, which is pretty mediocre in his ability except for the Serasker promotion. Fantastic for domination, but still very narrow focused. Builder charges, snowballing Combat Strength, snowballing culture from City states, etc. Are much more flexible and far-reaching.
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [7]
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [24-3=21] This shouldn't be the winner.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [13]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [17]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [8=7+1] Seriously, discounting this because "you could just get a cultural city state instead" is one of the worst lines of argument I've ever seen on here.
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [21]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [13]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30] (29+1) Go right ahead and -- build more, faster, often & forever.
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [17]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [5] (8-3) If only those free Monuments (etc) could be "replaced" by another building worth our own choices as favorites that would just support what we truly want!
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [22] [21+1] I have to give this at least one nod since this ability was literally patched out for every other civ on the basis of being overpowered. Since Norway keeps the ability, it has to be one of the best. Remember when this ability was just "Naval melee can coastal raid"? Harald has been trying to forget those times too.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [10] [13-3] Super good but the Zulu get +15 at the Mercenaries civic and they're long gone.
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [17]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [5]
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [22]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [11] (10+1) top five ability, hands down
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [14] (17-3) fun and strong, but not top five
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [5]
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23] (22+1) --- I think this is the one, quite useful. Decidedly so.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [11] (10+1) top five ability, hands down
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [29]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [14] (17-3) fun and strong, but not top five
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [2] (5-3) --- Useful in only the very early game then essentially useless. You may say that's when the game is won. Truth of the matter is the game is won when you sit down to play. The question is how fast and this may help survive early but not much else.
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [23]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [11] top five ability, hands down
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory 30[29+1]Cultural powerhouse
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor 27[30-3]over-rated. Played a game with China to make sure I was correct. Played a near perfect game, but the bonus builder charge was only a minor boost. Building workers early is a red herring.
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [14] fun and strong, but not top five
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [2]
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [24] (23+1) Uh yeah, this one absolutely deserves to be here and should stick around for awhile longer too. I'd happily take this over anything else on the list... not just because it's far and away the most fun ability in the game, but because it is also quite powerful if you make it the focal point of your game (and if you're playing Norway, why wouldn't you?). I can see this one getting targeted for downvotes by some because it's clearly a very popular ability, but it's popular for a reason.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [11]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27] (30-3) Booooooo-ring. Honestly, is there anything more dull than just straight buffs to unit CS in a game where the AI already struggles to defend itself? Sure it's effective but so is lowering the difficulty level. This offers nothing to actually enhance or change how you play the game unlike every other ability still on the list (except Trajan). That matters quite a lot to me.
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [14]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [2]
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [24]
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [8] (11-3) Fairly good, but more start dependent. Sometimes you just don't find enough city states close enough for this to be as useful as it could be.
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [14]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [3] (2+1) this is a top five ability. No investment immediate culture, loyalty, and borders is amazing. Though it looks like I'm fighting a losing fight here.
 
15. Harald Hardrada - Thunderbolt of the North [25] (24+1) My favorite thing about Norway is that it can use warfare to fuel another victory type. You don't really want to conquer that much as Norway, you want to devastate and then back off and let them rebuild. Ideally you're rotating through civs like a farmer rotating crops, giving one field time off to repair and then coming back to harvest. It's really a lot of fun to imagine building a spaceship with the pillaged pieces of someone else's research labs and such. Also it's really, really, really good.
24. Matthias Corvinus - Raven King [8]
25. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [24] (27-3) I think this is being overvalued, and I can't talk myself into eliminating Trajan, so my downvote goes here.
29. Pericles - Surrounded by Glory [30]
33. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
37. Suleiman - Grand Vizier [14]
42. Trajan - Trajan's Column [3]
 
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