[NFP] Gaul First Look

[Potworny]

So he and Shaka will hate each other.

Will they? That's ironic

Spoiler :

https://imgur.com/a/vxDrhV0

Though the only thing that is missing for me in this civ is hat.

 

[Nassim]

Good remark from the game mechanic twitch stream : oddly the archer at 1:17 only gives +6culture when it should be 12 based on production cost, and it's in normal speed. Could be there have been votes for -50% production costs of military units.

 

[Zaarin]

I mean not necessarily. Oppidum is a more broad term leaving it for more flexible usage. So while, every dunon is an oppidum, not every oppidum is a dunon. So while the dunon was a preferred encampment the usage of oppidum would capture the more sprawling nature which can also been seen in their requirement that it not connect to the city proper.

If it's not a dunon, it's a very strange unique, since every settled people in the world have villages.

 

[UWHabs]

Good remark from the game mechanic twitch stream : oddly the archer at 1:17 only gives +6culture when it should be 12 based on production cost, and it's in normal speed. Could be there have been votes for -50% production costs of military units.

It's possible they changed the bonus between 10% and 20% between recording sections of the video, but yeah, I noticed that math didn't add up correctly.

 

[hhhhhh]

I know they are non-coastal but I cannot stop thinking about a strategy where a city simply produces galleys with +100% policy so effectively you turn 40% of the production of that city into culture. Can be good when you need some key civic. (or produces land units with +50%, that turns 30% of the production into culture.)

 

[Narcisse]

Caesar used the word, as did other Romans describing the Gauls, so many scholars have picked it up. I would have preferred Dunon, and I'm hoping a mod will change it reasonably quickly.

To be fair, yes Oppudium was a roman usage and was meaningless. But the modern usage of Oppodium have a specific definition : "...considers as oppidum any fortified settlement from the Iron Age located in western and central Europe, without any particular area size criteria. This definition focuses above all on the functional characteristics of the oppidum, which is a position at the center of a territory bringing together economic, political and social activities, even if the presence of fortifications remains essential.".

-Dunon is just the Gallic termination of Oppidium cities name :

For exemple, Vellaunodunon was a Gallic oppidium (modern definition of oppidium), named later in latin as Vellaunodunum .

So Oppidium is an urbanistic identification term for Gallic fortified cities, -dunon is the gallic naming for these cities.

The naming of the civ 6 district is just bad because, the district don't look like an Oppidium, but look like the Asterix village. Firaxis just needed an "unique" name.
It's just look like any Gallic farm. Yes, it's important, Gallic poeple had concepts of land ownership.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6c/53/3d/6c533d863d5b09c5ae41a354c516ec1c.jpg

 

[Zaarin]

To be fair, yes Oppudium was a roman usage and was meaningless. But the modern usage of Oppodium have a specific definition : "...considers as oppidum any fortified settlement from the Iron Age located in western and central Europe, without any particular area size criteria. This definition focuses above all on the functional characteristics of the oppidum, which is a position at the center of a territory bringing together economic, political and social activities, even if the presence of fortifications remains essential.".

Yes, scholars use oppidum to refer to what the Gauls called a dūnon based on Caesar's usage, but dūnon would still be more accurate for a Gaulish civ.

-Dunon is just the Gallic termination of Oppidium cities name

Incorrect. Dūnon was the Gaulish word for a fortified settlement, cognate to Irish dún. Since most Gaulish cities were fortified, it naturally shows up in a lot of names.

The naming of the civ 6 district is just bad because, the district don't look like an Oppidium, but look like the Asterix village. Firaxis just needed an "unique" name.
It's just look like any Gallic farm.

Agreed.

 

[Sostratus]

This should not be a case of their unique Industrial Zone. I think atrubutes of their unique ability overwrites the rules of the basic one. Similar to the Maya Observatory

Under the hood what happens is every district has a list of things that can give it adjacency.
So +1 science from mountains is an entry for the campus, so is +2 science from reefs, etc.

Then there is a table that says “if you have THIS trait, then disable THAT adjacency bonus.” A trait in this context is just a tag that says what Civ/leader you are.

So what is happening for Gaul is they get modifiers attached to their trait that add minor adjacency from mines to all districts, one for each district. Then, they have a set of entries in the second table that disables the minor adjacency from districts, for each district.

Changing anything else is extra work that you have to go out of your way to do. On the flip side, adding adjacency to the Oppidum also has to be intentionally done; unique districts don’t just inherit all the adjacency of the base district by default.

Nothing restricts you from having all the district adjacency effects be the same yield, by the way. If you wanted you could make an IZ get +1 production from quarries and +1 food from farms, or what have you.

 

[hhhhhh]

Good remark from the game mechanic twitch stream : oddly the archer at 1:17 only gives +6culture when it should be 12 based on production cost, and it's in normal speed. Could be there have been votes for -50% production costs of military units.

I believe it is on -50% production costs of military units. Look at 1:02, a city with 25.2 production is getting a Gaesatae in one turn, which cost more than 40 production (40 is the cost of regular warrior). Unless last turn has a huge overflow and it's on +50% policy. Its production cost is probably halved.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

^ Eh? Actual Dunon builds on hills too?

Ok, but from the game perspective, you wouldn't like to have a condition to build the district that profits from adjacent hills on hill itself. Besides it's adjecy bonus is already restricted by nerby querrys and strategic resources, so adding hill requirement would limit its placing flexibility. Remember, gameplay over historical accuracy

 

[Zaarin]

Ok, but from the game perspective, you wouldn't like to have a condition to build the district that profits from adjacent hills on hill itself.

Seowon?

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ So callin' this Gaul IZ with the latin term that Romans also called their village rather than Dunon is still okay?

 

[ferenginar]

How do you change the leaders name, it should be Vercingetorix, or Vitalstatistix.

 

[Siddharth Venkatesh]

The Gauls seem to have some good bonuses, but I think they are a little "all over the place" and I really think the "no adjacency bonuses" from districts is kind of harsh, as well as tying so much of their power to mines, strategic resources and quarries.
That sounds to me like a rather inconsistent civ, if you happen to have few strategic resources and/or hills around, and makes you definitely want to set "World Age: New" for each game to secure more mining opportunities.
There's also the issue with tying lump culture to unit production.
Early on that sounds great, but generally when I do domination I find that by the medieval/renaissance era, I mostly stop producing units alltogether and just upgrade those I have or buy new ones for gold or faith.
At least with Gorgo, her culture bonus is tied to unit kills so it keeps being relevant even if it does fall off in strength.

That being said, what immediately struck me is that Gaul might be able pull off a hyper-aggressive ancient era rush involving mass unit production in order to rush Agoge (for even faster unit production) into Oligarchy for fast additional combat strength, where all the produced units tie in nicely adjacent to each other for even more combat strength.
I have obviously not tested this to see how the timings work out, but it might be worth a shot.
If it does, Gaul should be right up there with Sumeria, Nubia and Aztecs for their early rushing potential.

I think it's just the 0.5 minor adjacency per district that's removed I think, not bonuses from Government plaza or the Aqueduct bonus for IZs. That one is usually not that consequential and will be more than compensated by a minor adjacency from mines. Also, 1 culture from mines is a ridiculous amount of culture. Gaul will almost certainly have some sort of hill or mine bias.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Under the hood what happens is every district has a list of things that can give it adjacency.
So +1 science from mountains is an entry for the campus, so is +2 science from reefs, etc.

Then there is a table that says “if you have THIS trait, then disable THAT adjacency bonus.” A trait in this context is just a tag that says what Civ/leader you are.

So what is happening for Gaul is they get modifiers attached to their trait that add minor adjacency from mines to all districts, one for each district. Then, they have a set of entries in the second table that disables the minor adjacency from districts, for each district.

Changing anything else is extra work that you have to go out of your way to do. On the flip side, adding adjacency to the Oppidum also has to be intentionally done; unique districts don’t just inherit all the adjacency of the base district by default.

Nothing restricts you from having all the district adjacency effects be the same yield, by the way. If you wanted you could make an IZ get +1 production from quarries and +1 food from farms, or what have you.

But this is exactly what I have written Oppidum which is a Gaulish unique Industrial Zone has its own adjacencies similar way to the Mayan Observatory (that dont have any bonuses from mountains or reefs). The rest of districts are keeping their bonuses
(apart from +1 adjacency from another district)

 

[lotrmith]

Holy Power Creep, Batman!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Moreover, I assume this also means that we probably will get a super tall civ with compact cities that "all districts should be build next to city center". That will be fun.

I feel like Japan is already that civ but without the city center requirement. Unless they bend the rules then you couldn't build an Encampment or a Harbor unless you were on the coast.

The oppidum comes earlier than the normal industrial zone, but do we know what tech unlocks it?

I think the oppidum unlock apprenticeship (which gives +1 production to mines) is going to be huge by itself, especially if that comes very early

I'm going to assume it would come at Ironworking.

 

[JesseS]

That being said, what immediately struck me is that Gaul might be able pull off a hyper-aggressive ancient era rush involving mass unit production in order to rush Agoge (for even faster unit production) into Oligarchy for fast additional combat strength, where all the produced units tie in nicely adjacent to each other for even more combat strength.

Yeah I think Gaul is really a domination-focused civ. Their warrior can get +22 strength against "stronger" enemies, before accounting for regular flanking/support bonuses. Stack in oligarchy for +5 and you're at nearly musketman strength in the early classical era, which is probably enough to conquer 2-3 civs before needing to upgrade to muskets (or turn them into corps/armies for the meme of having 57/64 strength warriors). The culture bonuses help you hit the key era military civic timings earlier, culture-bombing lets you claim better tiles quicker, and the unique IZ lets you get decent production early. Only real downsides are that there are no Great Generals that work with ancient era units and your army will be pretty slow.

 

[Zaarin]

I feel like Japan is already that civ but without the city center requirement.

I still think we might see a civ that is the opposite of the Maya with a super-buffed capital and weaker supporting cities. If we do get Babylon instead of Assyria, that's what I'm expecting of Babylon TBH.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Seowon?

Seowon doesn't require adajacent quarries or strategic resources to be efficient itself Placing it on hill gives you flat +4 science.
I would say Ethiopian stone church is a better example here. But still I think this "must be built on hills" requirement for Opidium would limit placing flexibility to much.