Gave Civ 5 another shot.

[cman2010]

As some might remember I made another thread a week ago about how I had been disapointed with civ 5 and had chossen not to play for a while and see if it had gotten better with a few patches(I had not played since the december 15th patch). I gave it a whirl this weekend and I have to say its not as bad as I remember but still needs alot of work.

1. a fair amount of people said the ai was better but still rough around the edges, and I still see people saying "if you dont get the ai your just not understanding it ext.". this to me is just an excuse for a horable ai. While the ai is a little better than it was upon release its still garbage they go to war over nothing and dont recognise real threats. I even had an ai go from frendly to war in 1 turn. the ai needs alot of work.

2. the combat ai while not perfect is alot better than I remember I did not have one ai suicide its siege. ITs not perfect but most combat ais are not so this cant be expected.

3. I like that its actually worth it to build now.

4. I dont like how the ai does not have to deal with the happyness like we do it limits the value in taking to many citys from the ai this needs to be fixed as there is no real reason to take citys except as pupets and this gets old.

In conclusion I may play a game this week but it looks like civ 5 is still trash for now.

 

[aatami]

It takes time to understand the diplo AI, it is much more humanlike.

 

[bryanw1995]

if you don't get the ai you're just not understanding ext.

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[Polycrates]

I even had an ai go from frendly to war in 1 turn.

That there is a calculated backstab, it happens now and it's entirely deliberate (and entirely awesome).

 

[Louis XXIV]

Sometimes, the AI will hid its true feelings. I've had civs that I know hate me act friendly. It requites a bit of experience to pick those out. At least they're more open, so you have a better idea.

 

[Shurdus]

That there is a calculated backstab, it happens now and it's entirely deliberate (and entirely awesome).

This.

If you look at the ai with a bts mindset then it can indeed seem weird. This is however a different game with different rules, and it seems like you did not get that memo.

 

[cman2010]

That there is a calculated backstab, it happens now and it's entirely deliberate (and entirely awesome).

not at all its just a flawed ai, I think its sad that some people just cant come to grips that the ai needs alot of work when it does crazy things its calculated. the ai is seriously messed up. On a positive note if they keep improving the combat ai this way maybe we will have a great one in the future they way it is now I can live with as combat ai in these games is never the best.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Well, there's a formula and there are more honest civs than others. I'm not saying the AI acts always rationally, just that it's programmed to have a chance to hide its true intentions, while, other times, show them. Maybe you had war declared on you from a friendly civ that was behaving irrationally, but there's also a good chance it was a Civ that wasn't friendly to begin with.

Check the Strategy forum for the thread about AI behavior. See if the Civs that backstab you are high on the list for deception.

 

[cman2010]

Well, there's a formula and there are more honest civs than others. I'm not saying the AI acts always rationally, just that it's programmed to have a chance to hide its true intentions, while, other times, show them. Maybe you had war declared on you from a friendly civ that was behaving irrationally, but there's also a good chance it was a Civ that wasn't friendly to begin with.

Check the Strategy forum for the thread about AI behavior. See if the Civs that backstab you are high on the list for deception.

the thing is this is just a bad ai design not a deception. We had good trade relationship and my army was more advanced and I had more troops I took his invaders out in a few rounds then pupeted some of his citys, Heck I could have whiped him out if i wanted to so it makes no sense.

 

[blind biker]

I haven't played for even longer than that. Did they finally fix the stats and, most importantly, the replay, at the end of the game?

 

[Skwink]

not at all its just a flawed ai, I think its sad that some people just cant come to grips that the ai needs alot of work when it does crazy things its calculated. the ai is seriously messed up. On a positive note if they keep improving the combat ai this way maybe we will have a great one in the future they way it is now I can live with as combat ai in these games is never the best.

So Hitler was just a flawed AI?

 

[BobTheTerrible]

the thing is this is just a bad ai design not a deception

You can argue whether or not the idea that an AI can deceive you is bad design or not, but that's besides the point. Sometimes, an AI will specifically pretend to like you, and set their status to "Friendly" while they still secretly hate you. You can tell they're doing this when previous negative diplo modifiers "disappear" and the AI goes from Hostile to Friendly.

If you're fed up with the diplo AI, I'd recommend trying Thal's balance combined mod. It has a bunch of changes to the base game, including more sensible diplo AI. In the latest game I played, my continent is a huge friend-fest and almost no wars have happened (and there have been no denouncements at all).

 

[ezwip]

It is as if some of the bugs still exist out of spite. If you railed them hard in a thread and your bug is still there I think that's just their way of saying screw you. This is why caravels still get swept into lakes. Earth map totally screwed is my fault I complained and they came out with DLC maps instead.

 

[Polycrates]

not at all its just a flawed ai, I think its sad that some people just cant come to grips that the ai needs alot of work when it does crazy things its calculated. the ai is seriously messed up. On a positive note if they keep improving the combat ai this way maybe we will have a great one in the future they way it is now I can live with as combat ai in these games is never the best.

Certainly it's a flawed AI in a number of respects, but the backstab is a calculated decision - and it's quite possible to go back and see the AI bringing together an attack force and executing a combined-arms group move towards you all while "friendly"; and then on the turn when its units are right on your borders go from friendly to war and move its units in en masse. And when it's happened to me, it's been when my units happened to be off fighting another war on a different continent. That's pretty much identical to the "dagger" routine that was added in Civ IV BtS from Blake's fantastic AI modding work.

 

[jagdtigerciv]

the thing is this is just a bad ai design not a deception. We had good trade relationship and my army was more advanced and I had more troops I took his invaders out in a few rounds then pupeted some of his citys, Heck I could have whiped him out if i wanted to so it makes no sense.

Perhaps play at a higher difficulty? In this case, the AI probably knew it was going to lose in the long run and ever turn it didn't invade, you gained more power -- so it had to act. It initially tried to be friendly, gaining benefits from you, but ultimately, wanted to win. It tried, and failed. That's not bad AI design... the AI isn't meant to be the players sandbox, it is there to fill the very same role you are and we humans back-stab all the time.

 

[Montov]

Sometimes, the AI will hid its true feelings. I've had civs that I know hate me act friendly. It requites a bit of experience to pick those out. At least they're more open, so you have a better idea.

I agree. Friendly AI that covets your land is a good hint. Friendly AI who want friendly relations are ok. I've been backstabbed twice, but I was aware of it because of the diplomatic hints.

I also noticed AI tend to be scared if they want to backstab you but have lost a lot of units/cities in another war.

After backstabbing and warring defensivly, the AI is really friendly.

 

[cman2010]

So Hitler was just a flawed AI?

I suggest you go back and study the events that led up to world war 2, youll see that hitler gave many indications what he was going to do and what his true intentions were leading up to world war 2. May people did not want to believe that the war was inevitable so they stuck behind politicians that ran on the premise that they would keep them out of war.

 

[cman2010]

I haven't played for even longer than that. Did they finally fix the stats and, most importantly, the replay, at the end of the game?

no end of game replay, I think this is one of the little things that bugs me the most I miss seeing how the world came together.

 

[Kerosene31]

they go to war over nothing and dont recognise real threats. I even had an ai go from frendly to war in 1 turn. the ai needs alot of work.

I assume you played Civ 4? If so then you never, ever had friendly relations with your neighbor all while building an army to destroy him?

I'll go out on a limb and say every Civ player has declared war over "nothing" with an AI Civ. I do it all the time. A surprise attack is a great tactical advantage.

As for the Civ that attacked you who was weaker, did you have them boxed in on the map? I've noticed that if an AI Civ is small and you block them completely from expanding, they will attack you out of desperation. Chances are too they were doing all they could to get other Civs to gang up on you which sometimes fail. They decide to go out in a blaze of glory rather than be pathetic until someone wipes them out.

It still does need work, but it is far from broken as people like to say. It is different from Civ 4. They still need to add more positive diplomatic modifiers so you can get other Civs to like you more.

 

[cman2010]

I assume you played Civ 4? If so then you never, ever had friendly relations with your neighbor all while building an army to destroy him?

I'll go out on a limb and say every Civ player has declared war over "nothing" with an AI Civ. I do it all the time. A surprise attack is a great tactical advantage.

As for the Civ that attacked you who was weaker, did you have them boxed in on the map? I've noticed that if an AI Civ is small and you block them completely from expanding, they will attack you out of desperation. Chances are too they were doing all they could to get other Civs to gang up on you which sometimes fail. They decide to go out in a blaze of glory rather than be pathetic until someone wipes them out.

It still does need work, but it is far from broken as people like to say. It is different from Civ 4. They still need to add more positive diplomatic modifiers so you can get other Civs to like you more.

I did not have him boxed in, and yes the ai is still broken.