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Gay marriage Debate: Karl Rove vs. schoolgirl

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by JollyRoger, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    I really don't see the problem of letting homosexual people marry. The US Constitution (I think..) calls for the separation of church and state. The main problem with homsexuality comes from (no duh) the Christian establishment (Church) which is trying to influence the State to accept their religious views as law, clearly violating that principle. Homosexual marriage in no way affects the "sanctity" of religious marriage, which is just that, religious. The State officially sanctions a marriage with a license. Thus, if the Church doesn't want homosexual marriage, fine, don't let your priests religiously marry them. But don't prevent the State from doing so.

    Edit:
    First Amendment to the US Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." . The homosexual marriage ban would "respect" the Church, thus making it illegal/unconstitutional.
     
  2. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    I don't buy it for a second, but lets run with this kind of reasoning :)

    It's as far fetched as saying churches are responsible for increased traffic accidents since more people are driving on sundays when they have to go to church. If there was no such thing as churches there would be lesser traffic accidents. Churches are a burden upon our healthcare.
     
  3. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Ziggy, who was the comment directed at? Just wondering. I'll reply if it was directed at me.
     
  4. skadistic

    skadistic Caomhanach

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    Actually if you live with in a mile of a church your car insurance rate will go up. More churches the more it goes up. If there were no churches car insurance would be cheaper leaving more money for health insurance.

    Churches are bad for your health and wallet.
     
  5. skadistic

    skadistic Caomhanach

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    That only applies to a federal level. At the state level the state decides for it self.
     
  6. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    does that mean that you also have chosen to be a heterosexual? you truly considered the two options and "rationally and concsiencly" decided that you prefer boobs over dicks?
    And if it was a choice, who would choose to be homosexual considering the "status" they have? and I'm not talking about the US only, being gay is a capital crime in many country, why would some one "choose" to be gay if he can be hetero?
     
  7. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Give it a break Skad. This isnt the 50s anymore. Gays are represented in a positive light in pretty much every facet of our society. Trying to wring more out of that is just beating that old jackass into puree. Its like playing the race card when there is simply no reason for it.

    Perhaps in some few cases but most certainly not the vast majority. Gays should be held to the same levels of personal responsiblity that we are all. Or do you want to continue making excuses for them while their STD rates climb higher and higher?

    Do you need pictures? :lol:

    Pretty much, yes.

    Again, your idea of 'gay witchhunts' in the military is just pure nonsense.

    Uhm. They do have equal rights and I would be the first one to say gays need to be in church just like everyone else.

    Pretty much, yup, they most certainly are.

    Of course there are. Mostly because it feels good. Next question.

    Like number of sexual partners. Sexual frequency. Drug and alcohol use.

    Really? So gays are merely like a bunch of teenage girls out of highschool, emotionally scarred because Billy doesnt like them anymore? Please. None of them self-responsible enough that they can keep from blaming the rest of society for their choices?

    I really cant believe you actually swallow the crap you are dishing out here.
     
  8. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Really? The 10th amendment states:
    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    Separation of Church and State is delegated to the US, and is not prohibited to the States (i.e, the States have the 'power' as well). Thus, it applies to the States as well, and the States should follow.

    However, this is my interpretation of the Const. I find it a tad confusing (the 10th amendment) to be honest, so I really don't know.
     
  9. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    I think it a mis-statement to say that gay marriage would harm heterosexuals. A more correct statement I think would be that it would harm our society by opening the pandoras box (i.e. slippery slope) in what we legally allow a marriage to be or not be in our nation.

    I dont think our nation would be well served by allowing such variations in what we consider a marriage. In my opinion, the family unit has suffered tremendously in the last 50 years in the name of progress and removing the stigma from such things as teen pregnancy/single parenthood/drug use/casual sex have harmed the people of our nation as opposed to making it a better place. I for one would like to see a move in the opposite direction for once.
     
  10. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    It wasn't :)
     
  11. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Where did I ever say that the decision was a 'rational and concious' one?

    I didnt did I?

    Do you really have to ask that in our society? I am sure there are plenty who would do that exact thing...and probably HAVE done that exact thing.

    Well, now you are talking hypotheticals and in that regard what you think utterly silly just might make sense for someone else. Who the hell knows because its likely going to be different to each individual person.
     
  12. skadistic

    skadistic Caomhanach

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    Crap? This coming from a person who thinks gays are treated equally and have it just fine.:lol:
     
  13. zxcvbnm

    zxcvbnm The Nobody

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    How has it harmed? No supernaturalist dogmatist/intuitonist philosophical arguments please, but consequentialist.
     
  14. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Actually, Skad, I have always attended what I would refer to as conservative evangelistic churchs and NEVER in my entire experience has a pastor EVER given such a sermon.

    Perhaps you should wake up to the realization that not all churches = Westboro Baptist Church eh?

    By blaming society and not the people responsible for their own behavior.

    Take it however you want. Whatever gets you to sleep at night I guess.

    Actually, I would say that the proof is in the voting history of the issue. Well over 40 states have such statutes on the books or now as part of their state constitution and those measures got voted in by an overwhelming majority in pretty much every case. I would say thats proof of how widely accepted they are.

    "Dont ask, dont tell" means keep your private life private. No more, no less and no shame involved. We dont investigate it. If people wish to disclose it, thats entirely up to them.

    Sure they can just like I was under the same rules. Or they could get married in a non-government recognized service but still trade vows and considered themselves married.

    They are treated equally under the rules that are applied equally to all. Not really a hard concept Skaddy.

    No, actually because its such a no-brainer.

    Are you trying to say people are gay because they have psychological imbalances? Or that gays are the equivalent of a 14 year old girl who sleeps around and cuts herself?

    If I were gay I think I would be insulted by your view of them. Because its apparent that you dont think they are right in the head and only engage in their behavior not because they actually want to, but because society forces them too.

    Not to the same level or frequency that homosexuals do.

    Tell me Skad...if you think everyone is the same in all aspects then how do YOU explain the higher rate of STDs among homosexuals?

    ROFL. Dude...I get told that type of thing on a routine basis and I readily acknowledge I am a sinner. But I dont go around having unprotected sex because of it. Cry me a friggin river.

    Dude...gays dont have to 'hide in shame'. Wtf are you talking about? Most people could simply care less - they just dont want to have someones sexuality waved in their face.

    Pretty much they sure do. I dont see gangs of people with pitchforks and torches burning crosses in their yards the way you make it sound. You (again) have utterly and completely over-hyped the reality of the situation to where its quite the parody of real life.
     
  15. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    In increased rates of things that are worse for society than the alternative. Like teen pregnancy. More broken homes/families. Fatherless or motherless children who turn to gangs/drugs/crime because of their situation.

    Removing the social stigma of such things results in harm to society via increased crime rates/inceased demand of money for social programs/increased burden on those who are productive. It slows the successful growth of society and increases unrest (in civ terms).
     
  16. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    If he cannot answer a simple question, than that is a sign that he is wrong and that there is no threat to anyone.
     
  17. I'm Cleo!

    I'm Cleo! Deity

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    MobBoss,

    But what has gay marriage harmed?

    Cleo
     
  18. amadeus

    amadeus Civ2 / Law and Order!

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    Isn't she about five years behind the times?
     
  19. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    And that is important in what way ??
     
  20. .Shane.

    .Shane. Take it like a voter Retired Moderator

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    Cleo, duh, if you erase the stigma for gay marriage, clearly, 1000s of young people will go gay just to get married and spite their parents. WTF is wrong with you? Its just so obvious!

    More seriously, its inevitable, so I'm not too worried about arguing w/ those who are trying to cling to the past.
     

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