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Gays and the US military.

otago

Deity
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
2,448
Now it seems a lot in the US military are afraid that
being gay is something that can be caught.

So you have this strange do not tell policy.
Now to be consistant the US military should
refuse to have any military from other countries
who do allow gays in their military, serving in
areas where any US military are.

After all those nice clean cut American lads would be
in some danger of being dragged off by gangs of gays.

So time for the Brits to pull out of Afghanistan ?
 
Anyone familar with 'The Sacred Band' of Thebes?
 
This OP is so abominable, I don't even know where to start....
 
Frankly, I never understood the US military policy on this. But I will have to admit that I do not even have a clue what my countries' stance on this is (did not want to google. keeping it fair for once).

I know most of us males out there are - as a rule - homophobe (If i recall my greek correctly homo means equal so it is not necessarily man-man but just same sex. Most men do not have a problem with lesbianism (also homosexual if I am correct) but that's another topic). Personally, I do not include myself in that group, but then again I am awesome! eh, back to the topic *cough*

I might be off on my dates here, but didn't the US (as a rule, we are always talking about the US), or rather a vocal group within the US, not want blacks (coloured people, African Americans) in their army about, say, half a century ago? Not even going to go to what they did with them once they joined. I'm German. I know what my ancestors would have done with Jews in the military.

But if a country wants to spread liberty, freedom of speech and all that jazz... Why do they have to rely on rednecks to do that? Doesn't a homosexual person have the right to defend his way of life? Are you afraid that those smoking lesbians with guns are going to rape women with a burka? I hate to break it to you but that is not your main problem...Are you afraid that your supergay soldiers are going to make sweet, sweet love to the enemy in the trenches? That they are just going to stay at home and fornicate? I got news for you, you are watching too much porn!
 
So time for the Brits to pull out of Afghanistan ?

Your question doesn't make sense, IMO the US Army tolerates gays to quite some extent despite of the official policy.

The US Army has way more important things to worry about. Wasting resources trying to erradicate homosexuality would a be joke, please...
 
Your question doesn't make sense, IMO the US Army tolerates gays to quite some extent despite of the official policy.

The US Army has way more important things to worry about. Wasting resources trying to erradicate homosexuality would a be joke, please...
They don't want openly gay men and women in their service per say in the "Dont ask, Dont tell" policy.
 
They don't want openly gay men and women in their service per say in the "Dont ask, Dont tell" policy.

seconded. afaik. Is it not true that you can get a dishonorary discharge (spelled that word wrong 5 times) from the service for being gay?
 
seconded. afaik. Is it not true that you can get a dishonorary discharge (spelled that word wrong 5 times) from the service for being gay?
I'm not the best person to ask that question. Someone who knows more about the legal proceedings of the Military (such as MobBoss) could answer this question better than I could.
 
Well scherbchen, are you ready to see the as---le in me? Here goes.

I am in the military. I am kind of homophobic. I don't like gay men touching me. I don't like them hitting on me either. However, I fully believe that gay marraige is a civil right. To each their own. In a sense, I agree with you that they should be able to serve their country and defend their freedom just like black people. In principal, by my ideals, that is how I feel in my heart.

But as a male serviceman, I can tell you that's not so simple. At the base I was at, there were numerous high profile instances of gay's sexually abusing other men against their will. Most times, while they were sleeping. And instances of gay men abusing men were more numerous than females being abused by males. One of the companies I served with had a notorious nightstalker. There was another big case where I was stationed, where one Navy guy had heard from other guys in his tent, that they had been sexually abused while they slept. So he slept with his knife. Well, the guy eventually came into his room, touched him inappropriately, and was then held at knifepoint, in the tent, until people could take care of him.

The guy who had the knife recieved a far harsher punishment than the homosexual, who was simply relocated to a base stateside.

Then you have the instance of showering. As a straight man, I feel extremely uncomfortable showering with people who are sexually attracted to me if I am not sexually attracted to them. Call me weird, but this is the fact of the matter. This goes for women too. I would despise being in a room, naked, with other naked women, and having them look at me, stare at me, think about me in a sexual manner. It's not necessarily the fact that they are gay that bothers me. It is the fact that they may be attracted to, and get their groove on at my expense in their head. I don't think that I should have to be fully comfortable with the idea of people looking at me in a sexual manner in order to justify the existance of gays within the military. Period. If we are going to go that route, then we might as well just have co-ed bathrooms EVERYWHERE. And we might as well have co-ed housing. Why are women and men segregated from living with one another in most circumstances in the military? Why are relationships ill advised in the military? All of these should be applied to homosexuals in the military too. Having a gay man in your tent, is no different than having a straight man sleeping in a tent with a bunch of women.

Basically, in my mind, since I think that gays really should be allowed to serve, in many instances where full privacy simply cannot be achieved (bootcamp, field training, overseas deployments) the only real solution seems to be seperate but different. And then you start falling into the rhealm of discrimination. And nobody wants to go down that road.

I would love to have my mind corrected on this. I would love for someone to propose a solution that satisfies everyone. I belong to some pretty good forums, one is probably more on the ball than this one. And nobody has ever been able to come up with an argument against my position.
 
I agree witph Merkinball.
 
They don't want openly gay men and women in their service per say in the "Dont ask, Dont tell" policy.

:goodjob: "Dont ask, Dont tell" policy. Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make.

I am sure that there are tens of thousands of homosexuals in the US military. :lol: It's possible in probability terms.
 
I agree witph Merkinball.

HOLY S--T! It's a blue moon, and all the planets have aligned, and hell froze over!

I seriously expect to get loads of crap from my point of view. I usually do in the couple of other forums I belong to. But what's odd. Is that in both forums where I have expressed this opinion, there have been individuals like you, who strongly agree with me. And fight to the death for me.
 
:goodjob: "Dont ask, Dont tell" policy. Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make.

I am sure that there are tens of thousands of homosexuals in the US military. :lol: It's possible in probability terms.

I don't WANT a don't ask don't tell policy. This is how you end up getting night stalkers in the first place. Look, being a male, deployed away from hot vagina, or whatever gets your kicks on, is really, really hard. I imagine that it is just as hard for gay men as it is for people like me. To be in a place, and be forcibly told that you cannot have sexual relations. At my base there's no gay sex, no straight sex, no sex in your tent, no females in your tent, no sex with hookers out in town, no going into civilian homes, no sex with civilian females, you get the point.

So this ends up with a lot of pent up sexual frustration. But as a straight guy, with a bunch of straight guys, its less problematic. If you were to put a girl in my tent, it would be a complete unworkable disaster. Everyone would be trying to sleep with her. And it would open up an avenue for sexual abuse of her becuase eventually you're going to get someone who cannot control themselves.

The same can be said with the men. And there is a significant gay population that doesn't tell. And some of them end up being sexual abusers. They cannot come right out and say they are gay. So they try and hide it. The stress builds up, but they are surrounded by men. So they abuse them.

If there was a system that could be set up so they could out themselves but retain their positions and be matriculated within regular units, that would be ideal. But the second someone claims to be gay, what do you think the perception of someone like me is? What do you think is running through my mind when I gotta shower next to that guy?

It's a complex can of worms. And I wish there could be an easy solution. But so far as I'm concerned there isn't one.
 
I would think that any sort of predator needs to get dealt with harshly. Any problems with your thoughts about homosexuality during showering comes with the job. With don't ask, don't tell, you don't know who is potentially lusting for you (likely not as many as you think). Without don't ask, don't tell, it makes it more in the open and peer pressure probably keeps those that are "out" from overdoing it with the lustful gazes.
 
Let the soldiers decide, after all, it's their ass on the line.


Warrior gets what warrior wants - who the hell are we to tell them otherwise. We're not out there dying with them.
 
Frankly, I never understood the US military policy on this. ...

Let me just stop you right now, and clear this up.

This isn't "US military policy". This is congressional law/policy. The US Armed forces has no say in this matter. Just like how woman can't serve in combat units is congressional law/policy. A law I may add that the US Armed Forces has "bent" more then a few times already.

I just want to make it clear who to point the finger. It's congress that sets this policy, not the Armed Forces.

As a side story, my old Team leader was gay. No one ever said anything "Officially", but we all knew it. But he keep it private and hidden. And no one had a problem with it, outside the joke here or there.
 
@ merkinball: I am in no way ready to call you an a----le. I am even scared to agree with you at this point, because you keep referrring to yourself that way :)

But I do have to. An old friend of mine was gay and I thought highly of myself for having a gay friend. But I will freely admit to being uncomfortable when we had a get-together and some guy came on to me. I can relate. I like to think of myself as being very openminded and liberal but that just scares the . .. .. .. . out of me. So I concede your point, grudingly. Because I like to think of myself as a better person than I actually am.

That still leaves the problem. The powers that be take the easy way out (and it might, really, just be the fastest and less complicated. doesn't make it right). First starting with "that doesn't happen" (don't ask, don't tell). Then with kicking - arguably - valuable members out of the forces. People they have spent thousands and thousands of dollars to train (heck, even euros!. sry, I will quit the quips).

You agree that they should be allowed to serve. To serve the country that at least at times tolerates their orientation. And I am now going to sound holier than thou. I am sorry. Why not educate kids, even, to accept an 'alternative' way of life?

As far as the harassment goes... Once the "omgawd you have been touched by a gay guy" LOL! sentiment goes away you just file a law suit. I do not want to sound condescending but that is what Americans do, right?

And no, I have never been in a similar situation like yours. I have never even served my country. This is all talk. That's all I got.

PS: Penelope rules!
 
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