Gaza Pullout

[blackheart]

The Palestinians wont stop untill they have all of Isreal I dont know why more
people havent realised that already.

Because it's not true?

Last time I checked they owned all that along time before there was such thing as a palestinain.

And last time I checked Native Americans owned all of America before the white men came. And Italians (Romans), Turks (Ottomans), and Persians owned Israel. Just because they owned it in the past doesn't guarantee present ownership, especially considering who is living there now.

 

[Leonel]

I hope Hamas doesn't screw this up, of which they appear to be pretty skilled at. We don't need Hamas trying to make it look like they're driving the Israeli's out of Palestinian lands by attacking the Israeli's as they pull out. Hopefully they're smarter than that.

 

[Japanrocks12]

The settlers have shown their foolhardiness by staying in the Gaza area, I hope that the episode ends violently.Moderator Action: warned, trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[G-Man]

What about leaving them as homes for poor palestinians?

Not a good idea:
1. As long as the houses stand, settlers can try to re-ocupy them. They can't enter demolished houses.
2. If the Palestinians get these houses they won't use them for poor Palestinians, but for people that their regime wants to help - ie ministers and faction leaders, as well as the always popular shahids - the Palestinian terrorists. The last thing Sharon wants is to give primium housing to terrorists.
3. The Palestinians don't need western suburban housing units. If you've ever visited an arab village or an arab city you know that their building style is very different, mostly for cultural reasons (very large families living together).
4. It would be more efficient to destroy these houses and reuse the materials in order to build more dense residencies, as housing just 8,000 people in these places will not be of much help to gaza's overcrowding.

What happened with settlements in Sinai, after the Israelis pulled out?

They were demolished, despite Egypt's offer to pay some 40$ million for them, mostly in order to avoid having settlers return there.


BTW note that not all buildings will be demolished, only the residential buildings (and obviously whatever military facilities exist there). All public buildings are planned to remain intact, ready to be reused by the Palestinians, as does the agricultural infrastructure.

 

[G-Man]

The settlers have shown their foolhardiness by staying in the Gaza area, I hope that the episode ends violently.

That's an evil comment. I know it doesn't sound like a very clever title, but wanting to see bloodshed simply because you disagree with someone is just plain evil.

 

[Cheetah]

I hope the pullout goes quitely and that PA is able to control the area afterwards.

... but I have my doubts.

That's an evil comment. I know it doesn't sound like a very clever title, but wanting to see bloodshed simply because you disagree with someone is just plain evil.

Well, I think you could blame a bit of the situation of religious extremists, both muslim and jewish. If they weren't so stubborn maybe a lot of suffering could have been avoided. I guess that is were JR12 comes from.

 

[Sh3kel]

Sharon has shown some real guts here and actually taken back some of the moral high-ground the Israelis have always claimed to hold. Its a shame he has then lost some of that high ground by letting his displaced people settle on another patch of ground illegally held by Israel...

Have you checked a map recently? We're relocating them to the south of Israel, a blody desert called the The negev is an illegal piece of ground?!

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

You know, the government offers these people tons of incentives to settle the Territories, and then pulls the rug out from under their feet with this withdrawal. It's exactly what happened in Yamit back in the 70s... Israel should have a clear and consistent policy regarding settlements in the Territories - no more, and eminent domain over what's extant. Too bad the settlers are too politically powerful to ever let that happen.

I'm just sick of the settlers who also happen to be Israel Hagadol nutsos, the people who think Lebanon and Syria should be Israeli.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

So what are the view over this?? will there be more peace ? is this a positive step ?? will the isreal troops return if suddenly there are new attacks ??

What does this mean to the palestinian ? im sure they are very happy atm, but what about the israel ? Did ariel sharon made this decision due to foreign intervention ?? how much part did USA play in this ??

For my POV, i think this might be a turning point in solving the Israel- pelastinian problem.

I doubt it. I don't think it'll make things any worse for Israel, but I doubt things'll get better.

I suspect that Hamas will find other reasons to attack Israelis. AFAIK, their aim is to drive Israel out of existence entirely, not just out of the occupied territories.

What I can guarantee is that Gaza will become even more lawless and chaotic than it is now. The Palestinian police are hapless and corrupt, and definitely underpowered compared to the Palestinian terrorist organizations.

 

[Japanrocks12]

That's an evil comment. I know it doesn't sound like a very clever title, but wanting to see bloodshed simply because you disagree with someone is just plain evil.

No, I just want to see bloodshed

[/sarcasm]

 

[dvandyke]

Good to see the Israelis getting the hell out of Gaza but this is only half measures.

 

[boogaboo]

@G-Man - thnx 4 your reply - this way mine is shorter!

Sharon has shown some real guts here and actually taken back some of the moral high-ground the Israelis have always claimed to hold. Its a shame he has then lost some of that high ground by letting his displaced people settle on another patch of ground illegally held by Israel...

Have you checked a map recently? We're relocating them to the south of Israel, a blody desert called the The negev is an illegal piece of ground?!

Sh3kel, I think you misunderstand brennan -
he talked about all jews as misplaced people, who also decided to settle on "illegal" territory - the Gaza strip.
In fact, one of the great positives of this withdrawl, is that we will gain the "moral high ground" brennan is talking about.


On another issue, the PA has agreed to the demolishing of houses, so there ain't no conflict there.

 

[boogaboo]

Good to see the Israelis getting the hell out of Gaza but this is only half measures.

Yes, but with Gaza being a border and the wall in the west bank, it will be more harder and much less legitimate for terrorists to attack Israel, and much more legitimate for Israel to response when they do.
Thus, it will create the basic situation where a permanent peace deal can be made in the future, while preserving both the moral high ground for Israel and security.

 

[G-Man]

Well, I think you could blame a bit of the situation of religious extremists, both muslim and jewish. If they weren't so stubborn maybe a lot of suffering could have been avoided. I guess that is were JR12 comes from.

Let's make one thing clear - Not all settlers are religious, and only a very small fraction (mostly in and around Hebron) are religious extrimists. Gaza's settlers are nearly all peaceful, non violent people, and many of them were secular people.

 

[brennan]

Actually I was referring to the fact that Sharon's government has encouraged some of those it is moving from Gaza to relocate straight to the West Bank! Israel will not gain the moral high-ground till they leave there as well. That is all the Palestinian authority want and it is all they should get. Let us bear in mind that only the fanatics like HAMAS want Israel to be gone altogether. One of the reasons they want this is that the Israelis bulldozed the Palestinians out of Israel when they first set the country up. Remember that when you talk about what is fair. If Israel return to the old borders almost everyone will be happy except HAMAS and they will no longer have the occupation to bring them widespread support.

JapanRocks12 your sarcasm is in damn poor taste.

 

[boogaboo]

Wrong, Brennan.

The settlers will be relocated to inner Israel - Ashkelon area and the Negev.
If some want to buy an appartment in some west bank settlement, I guess it is still possible, yet not supported by the government nor done in most cases.

 

[brennan]

The BBC said (sunday I believe) that some of the hard line settlers had been encouraged to relocate to the West Bank, presumably to make the Gaza withdrawal easier. I haven't been able to dig up anything specific. I certainly hope that is not official policy, but I bet some of them go there anyway.

 

[Samson]

I am missing something with this news story. Do the settlers who want to stay want to live in a palestinian dominated state (or whatever Gaza is going to be), or do they expect that by staying they will force Israel to maintain contol over the area?

 

[brennan]

They believe that it is land given them by God. End of story. End of rational behaviour.

 

[amadeus]

How many settlers are there and is there enough vacant housing in Israel to support them? I was just wondering about that.

I really don't know what to make of the settler policy. What do our local Israelis think of it?