General A New Dawn discussion

[Vokarya]

I think you don't have to FOUND a religion, just to have one. On the other hand I'd like to see revolts even if you have a religion or if you are getting different religions in your empire. And no, I didn't scale up that penalty.

I've noticed that even before the latest changes, having multiple religions was a pretty good way to get revolts. And the problem I have is that these revolt issues are happening too early for religions to spread far, so the only way to get a religion is to found one.

I think the Revolution Cheats tab does a pretty good job of laying out the different factors that are going into the RevIndex changes. I went back to my save game and found that finishing the connection between the two cities raised the Distance factor from 7 to 17.

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[Vokarya]

Furthermore (and yes, I'm REALLY upset about this right now), I think you've scaled revolts too long. 14 turns on Normal speed is not fair.

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[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Furthermore (and yes, I'm REALLY upset about this right now), I think you've scaled revolts too long. 14 turns on Normal speed is not fair.

View attachment 394664

Actually I've scaled it down. At least it looked so on blitz and quick. There's obviously something wrong. I completely agree that 14 turns is too long. At the same time I've also increased time between revolutions as per Afforess request.

Edit: it should be 3-4 turns on normal. Do you get 14 turns every time or is it a repeating rebellion?

 

[jackelgull]

Sorry if I am spamming this thread but take a look this is the crown jewel of my empire. I swear if I ever lose this city I'll quit.



And it is a colony too, not even a mainland city.

 

[Vokarya]

Actually I've scaled it down. At least it looked so on blitz and quick. There's obviously something wrong. I completely agree that 14 turns is too long. At the same time I've also increased time between revolutions as per Afforess request.

Edit: it should be 3-4 turns on normal. Do you get 14 turns every time or is it a repeating rebellion?

I just got a second revolt that was 14 turns of disorder, and a third was at least 12. I think most revolts have been 8 turns of disorder. There definitely needs to be a longer cooldown between revolts; once you start getting revolts, it becomes a death spiral.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

I last played AND a year ago, where I would play at the highest difficulty levels (most often starting at Immortal with Increasing Difficulty). With the latest version, I find that if I try that, my tech costs are much, much higher than they used to. What changed with tech costs?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I last played AND a year ago, where I would play at the highest difficulty levels (most often starting at Immortal with Increasing Difficulty). With the latest version, I find that if I try that, my tech costs are much, much higher than they used to. What changed with tech costs?

Things have changed, you won't find it that easy anymore to play higher levels. I suggest you start on prince/monarch or use Flexible Difficulty. Also, be warned there's a bug with AI attacking (or better NOT attacking when there are siege weapons in a stack).

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I just got a second revolt that was 14 turns of disorder, and a third was at least 12. I think most revolts have been 8 turns of disorder. There definitely needs to be a longer cooldown between revolts; once you start getting revolts, it becomes a death spiral.

Wait a minute, I've already made it longer between a revolution and another but you are talking about revolts in single city, correct? I was also planning to change that in this sense. Anyway number of turns you reported are way too high, I totally agree and it shouldn't have been like that: as I've said on normal speed a revolt in a city shouldn't last more than 4 turns max. I'll look again at the code and values to fix what's wrong.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Things have changed, you won't find it that easy anymore to play higher levels. I suggest you start on prince/monarch or use Flexible Difficulty. Also, be warned there's a bug with AI attacking (or better NOT attacking when there are siege weapons in a stack).

Thanks for the quick reply. Other than the difference in tech costs, how would prince/monarch play now as compared to a year ago? Does the AI at prince/monarch provide a greater challenge now than it used to?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Thanks for the quick reply. Other than the difference in tech costs, how would prince/monarch play now as compared to a year ago? Does the AI at prince/monarch provide a greater challenge now than it used to?

It definitely should. It also depends on options you choose. But there's that problem with AI not attacking cities which makes the game way too easy if you play aggressively or if you are a warmonger.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

It definitely should. It also depends on options you choose. But there's that problem with AI not attacking cities which makes the game way too easy if you play aggressively or if you are a warmonger.

Luckily I'm neither, so the bug won't bother me much. Thanks for the info.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I don't think I've changed any user settings. The human offset is definitely still at 0.0. Do you think you could try it with both usersettings folders (mine and your usual) and see if there is a difference? I was getting +2/turn without the path and +5/turn with the path. I also tried deleting my usersettings folder and reloading the game and I was still getting the same numbers after resetting the Revolution Difficulty back to 0 and reloading.

Here is what I noticed; in save game 2, if I stop the Worker from finishing the path, then Oporto's index continues to increase by 2 per turn. Nothing else is happening that I can see having an effect on revolution changes. If I get Oporto up to the first culture level, then it only starts to increase by 1 per turn while not connected.

Also, if I don't finish the path, then under the Revolution popup I get Not Connected to Capital under Bad Factors, but if I do finish the path, I get Distant Location. See screenshots. On a side note, I'm also getting Huge Empire as a negative factor. I don't think 2 cities should trigger Huge Empire.
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Well, I've typed this message hours ago but forgot to send it.

I've tried yours and mine UserSettings and they give the same result, so that's ok.
The huge empire thing is scaled by mapsize and I think by era, it shouldn't be a big deal I think; we can reduce it a bit anyway. As for the connectedness, you're right: there are a ColonyModifier and a DistanceToCapitalModifier, currently set at 1.25 and 2.5 respectively. I think I've changed that after I had some complaints by people telling me that their colonies on other continents were always rebelling; I didn't know at the time that a not connected city (like Oporto in your case) is still a colony until it's connected somehow. So it should be correct to swap them, 1.25 for DistanceToCapitalModifier and 2.5 for ColonyModifier. I also think we could rise HappinessModifier from 1 to 1.5 and scale down ReligionModifier from 2 to 1.5. The tricky part is that, if I'm not mistaken, those modifiers work in both ways. So if ReligionModifier is 2, you get a larger boost for your religion and a larger negative boost for foreing religions being present in your cities. I'm also ok in scaling down CivSizeModifier from 2.5 to 1.5.

Anyway, as I've said in another post days ago, I'm still trying to find a good balance for those values in order to let player choose their revolution difficulty level so that you can range from (almost) no revolutions to a nightmare of revolutions. Standard values we used until months ago definitely don't work, at least because with dbkblk new code AI is producing tons of units and hence they keep revolt levels very low.

 

[Vokarya]

Wait a minute, I've already made it longer between a revolution and another but you are talking about revolts in single city, correct? I was also planning to change that in this sense. Anyway number of turns you reported are way too high, I totally agree and it shouldn't have been like that: as I've said on normal speed a revolt in a city shouldn't last more than 4 turns max. I'll look again at the code and values to fix what's wrong.

I'd like there to be both longer cooldown times between revolts and shorter revolts in cities. I think that is one thing that is causing the constant revolt spiral I am seeing; disorder causes +15 local instability per turn (according to the Revolution Cheats menu), which causes the cities to revolt again sooner, which increases the RevIindex even more. I've got Medieval Era totals of over 3000 right now.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I'd like there to be both longer cooldown times between revolts and shorter revolts in cities. I think that is one thing that is causing the constant revolt spiral I am seeing; disorder causes +15 local instability per turn (according to the Revolution Cheats menu), which causes the cities to revolt again sooner, which increases the RevIindex even more. I've got Medieval Era totals of over 3000 right now.

OK, let me know what you think about my proposed values in the other post thread and I'll see what I can do for cooldown times and revolt lengths.

 

[Vokarya]

Well, I've typed this message hours ago but forgot to send it.

I've tried yours and mine UserSettings and they give the same result, so that's ok.
The huge empire thing is scaled by mapsize and I think by era, it shouldn't be a big deal I think; we can reduce it a bit anyway. As for the connectedness, you're right: there are a ColonyModifier and a DistanceToCapitalModifier, currently set at 1.25 and 2.5 respectively. I think I've changed that after I had some complaints by people telling me that their colonies on other continents were always rebelling; I didn't know at the time that a not connected city (like Oporto in your case) is still a colony until it's connected somehow. So it should be correct to swap them, 1.25 for DistanceToCapitalModifier and 2.5 for ColonyModifier. I also think we could rise HappinessModifier from 1 to 1.5 and scale down ReligionModifier from 2 to 1.5. The tricky part is that, if I'm not mistaken, those modifiers work in both ways. So if ReligionModifier is 2, you get a larger boost for your religion and a larger negative boost for foreing religions being present in your cities. I'm also ok in scaling down CivSizeModifier from 2.5 to 1.5.

Anyway, as I've said in another post days ago, I'm still trying to find a good balance for those values in order to let player choose their revolution difficulty level so that you can range from (almost) no revolutions to a nightmare of revolutions. Standard values we used until months ago definitely don't work, at least because with dbkblk new code AI is producing tons of units and hence they keep revolt levels very low.

I'm willing to try this out in another game once you release a new build. I definitely noticed the AI producing tons of units. I got a lot of use out of combined arms tactics with Archer/Siege Bombard and Light Swordsmen to beat down enemy stacks; not having Iron (Swordsmen) for a while hurt a lot.

 

[S0crates]

Things have changed, you won't find it that easy anymore to play higher levels. I suggest you start on prince/monarch or use Flexible Difficulty. Also, be warned there's a bug with AI attacking (or better NOT attacking when there are siege weapons in a stack).

Just wanna say I really like what you've done with the tech costs/speed recently and how its combined with the tech diffusion, its the most natural feeling difficulty/balance I've ever experienced in this mod and also up there with some of the other really balanced mods I've tried (e.g Realism Invictus), this is on Monarch

 

[jackelgull]

For some reason some event options aren't telling me anything about what they do.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

View attachment 394682

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For some reason some event options aren't telling me anything about what they do.

I hope Vokarya can have a look since he's cleaning up events. On certain conditions, this event has always been like this IIRC. Probably something connected with civics changes we've done in the past.

 

[Vokarya]

I hope Vokarya can have a look since he's cleaning up events. On certain conditions, this event has always been like this IIRC. Probably something connected with civics changes we've done in the past.

I triggered the event myself and the help options work fine for me. Option 1 triggers We Love the King day in every city and option 2 changes your Government civic to Federation, Democracy, or Republic (depending on your techs).

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The Option 1 help is probably one of the simplest ones that can be done. There are no checks or tests of any kind. This is all there is:

def getHelpLessDictator1(argsList):
	import BugUtil
	iEvent = argsList[0]
	kTriggeredData = argsList[1]
	player = gc.getPlayer(kTriggeredData.ePlayer)

	szHelp = BugUtil.getText("TXT_KEY_EVENT_NATIONAL_HOLIDAY")
	return szHelp

I suspect something is wrong with the ability to display Python help in general. I would suggest this:

• In Civ4EventTriggerInfos.xml, change line 3408 from <iWeight>100</iWeight> to <iWeight>-1</iWeight>.
• Also in Civ4EventTriggerInfos.xml, change line 3461 from <bRecurring>0</bRecurring> to <bRecurring>1</bRecurring>.
• Start the game and the Hurricane event should trigger on the next turn and every turn after that if you have at least one coastal city. (Make a backup copy of Civ4EventTriggerInfos.xml so you can revert and play properly afterwards.)

If the help text doesn't display for the Hurricane event (Up to one cheap and one expensive building will be destroyed) then something is wrong with the game's ability to display help text called by Python.

This is what should display:
View attachment 394697

 

[Vokarya]

Okay, so here's another question. Is the tech speed supposed to be as fast as it is? On my most recent game, I founded Hellenism (getting myself into the Classical Era) at 1677 BC, and Shinto was founded (meaning someone got into the Medieval Era) in 145 BC. This was Normal speed, Standard size map, Noble difficulty, and Realistic Timescale is ON. My thoughts are the Classical Era shouldn't start until around 750 BC, and Medieval until 500 AD.