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General discussion for civics.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by raxo2222, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. Usul13

    Usul13 Chieftain

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    The game is on Immortal Difficulty, Long Game Speed, Standard Map Size with High Sealevel, started with 15 civilizations.

    I like to push the limits of expansion so I usually have to play with my Research slider a lot. There was a time in this game when my Research slider was at 0%. I had some neighbours near to me so I started conquering them very early. The first one in 125000 BC. By the time I researched Tribalism I conquered 4 of them. At the time of the screenshots I conquered 6 capitals. These big cities help a lot with my income. On the other hand I have a nice strong army and my Unit Costs are quite high. I have to balance them all the time.

    I uploaded my latest save if you want to look into it. My start settings and BUG settings are inside the zip file too.
     

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  2. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Cool! Thanks for the save game too. :)

    I'm happy to hear that you have to manipulate the Research slider. If you had said it stays at 100% all the time then I would've failed in making the opening Civics better. My own has fluctuated as well. But since I was a bi more isolated from my 2 nearest neighbors I had no early wars. In fact now that I'm in the Classical Era the possibility for war is steadily increasing since Smoke Jaguar like to threaten all the time. But he is also fighting Cleopatra and more advanced Civ across a narrow sea strip. 4 of the AI are on another continent and all 4 are more advanced than the 3 AI I share this continent with. Theodora already has Sloops of War and Caravels showing up off my northern coast and I have yet to get Deceres! Ugh!

    I also am dead last in number of cities again (17 vs high of 23). And I'm a devote expansionist too. But I do have 5 Forts creating a natural barrier that will allow me to back fill that area soon with New Cities. As long as I keep Deganiwida and Cyrus mollified with good trade deals that is. ;)

    What is slowing the wars down is the Upgrade costs for mil units. Which can be a double edged sword. I too am playing on Long, but with a large map and only 7 AI. So more land in between Civs to start.

    And Hellenism was my 1st founded religion! Much later in the game than I'm used to. I had to set All Cities on Lesser Research for 3 turns to get it before the competition did. I'm playing as Israel and I accepted Cyrus religion Of Tengrii since I had 2 horse, 2 elephant, and 1 camel resources in my Empire starting area. Now that I have cordoned off the desert area with the Forts I have 4 camel. I also have Judaism in my Capitol from the Event for preferred Religion and Empire. I always play with Multiple Religion spread On in BUG.
     
  3. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Hope who ever is doing the re-make of the civics or restructure of them changes the "charity" one it is a useless as a wet "what ever" .. . attached junk civic . .
    also change the mercenaries again back to where it us advantageous to use it again, now it also is more or less useless . . thx. . . SO . .
     

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  4. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I'm working on them SO. And Mercenaries have not been adjusted yet.

    Do you use Charity in the mid or late game? It's a simple Civic by design so what is it supposed to do besides :) and :health: ?
     
  5. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    dont really need civics to give hold, have waaaay more than enough throughout the game, and by Indus Era on have more than anyone can ever use, so gold is not important in anything lately . . need something from Survival to church that means something just enough 2 change but not too much, i guess, if ur working on them then i will leave it at that, ok, thx. . . SO
     
  6. HorseshoeHermit

    HorseshoeHermit 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    The main benefit of charity welfare is that the state doesn't have to do anything. Which is communicated in the Zero upkeep.

    I object to many of the civic lines being braindead dumb upgrade paths from era to era, but this isn't one of them. Charity is an awful system.
     
  7. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I understand.

    It is a work in progress. And it will take awhile to shake out the "bugs". Be patient with me. :)

    I also think when you get around to starting a New Game you won't be swimming in Gold as much as before. At least that is my goal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
    strategyonly likes this.
  8. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    And some have to be (awful) to get the player and AI to move on when the time is right. But then later on you have to mute the awful just enough to make the switch palatable to the switchee. ;)
     
  9. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Some of these Civics are way too convoluted. I know that some want them to have tons of changes. But the more I go thru the progressions the more I want to make the starting Civic in each category Bare Bones. Then the 2nd and 3rd can start adding a boost or reducing the starting malus.

    And some categories bleed badly into another category as well. Or the Upkeep costs are thrown in willy nilly. Marxist is a glaring example of this. It is currently residing in Society. But under Rule or Gov't there is No Communism anymore.

    I very much want to pare some of the Civics in each Categories down as well. But I Know I must tread lightly in this regard. Some have just way too many Civics.

    Now I understand better why EldrinFall and then CivPlayer8 walked away after making their Civic sets. :p
     
  10. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    I wonder if @Toffer90 could add another window or something to civics screen, where all their effects are summed together.
    I guess upkeep costs were thrown randomly as civics were evolving in last 10 years.
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I'll not hold back commentary on civics if I disagree with a change but generally I'm not looking at it myself too intensely so it's not something I can offer a lot of feedback or opinion on usually.
     
  12. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    They have gone up and down multiple times as the mod produced gameplay that demanded it. I'm the one that finally re-introduce the iHomeContinent Maint Modifier being used as well as the iOtherArea Mc Modifier. They both have been in the Mod since it was born. But no one dared to use them, as a 10% usage of either one can be very costly.

    I understand. Was just kinda venting over the Civics last night. I want the next set to come into play soon, but.....I find that the urge to redo the early sets is strong as well. I'll stifle that urge abit to just try to get the next set up and committed for general usage. That will hopefully get some constructive critiquing to show up.
     
  13. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Warlord

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    Given that a lot of the text normally comes from the dll it is not easy. For example the text saying +1:health: for buildings comes to the Python as a one or more strings depending on the number of buildings (if I remember correctly), if two civic changes do health changes then the Python would need to parse the strings for the same buildings, remove the building from that string and then add them to a new string with the combined result. Of course it would need to find such matching strings first.

    Platyping's Civics screen is vertical rather than the usual horizontal, and shows the old and new side by side but only one Civic group at a time. That means you can see the differences between the one you have and the one you want on screen in the same format side by side not as most mods have it where you can only see one or the other. I did experiment with using it in C2C and can't remember why we did not go with it. It is certainly better than what we have even if it is not as great as we would like. I vaguely remember there was some problem with the buttons we have or maybe it was the number of options in one Civic.

    EDIT Now I remember. It came out after his complete overhaul of the UI where he streamlined the code for maintainability and efficiency making it incompatible with all other UI python :lol:

    Below is a screen shot of what it looks like but only the EXIT button works, he changed the way that mouse clicks were handled once they reached Python (from the exe). In the normal BtS code all input is handled via a "watcher" style program. Whereas he has each screen handle its own input.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  14. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    what IF we use Toffer's civics?? or a combination of both?
     
  15. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I haven't made any changes to the civic screen in my UI modmod, and the civic set up in my gameplay modmod is too incomplete to be much help.
     
  16. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    So there are future plans for your Civic set? Am I spinning my wheels again? Wasting my time?
     
  17. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    It will probably be years till I'm finished with that civic set, and even then it might still stay as a modmod.
     
  18. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Civic Category Society, adjustments added to SVN.
     
  19. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    @JosEPh_II don't forget to consider buildings, that are unlocked by given civic when revising civics.

    That is you can kind of upgrade civic by building civic related building.

    Some buildings may require one of multiple civics - they may be in same or different categories.

    Civic X may boost something by 10%, but building, that needs civic X adds its 10% to it for example.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  20. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    If you see something don't be shy in speaking up about it.

    And All feedback welcome too.

    Gold is getting tighter in early early game. And not enough Education giving buildings available are making using Story Tellers more costly. But necessary to stop the "-"Education level from getting worse. The changing of entry levels on Common Cold and to False Accusations to level +1 for Disease and Crime respectively is also being felt.

    Just started a New Immortal Normal Game with 12 AI on Large, Archipelago, low seal level, Temperate, C2C_World map, SVN 10370, last night. It's 4838BC I still have not reached Ancient era, I have 3 cites and am at the bottom of the Ranking list. Leader has 6 cities already and is well into the Ancient era. Techs are taking me 3-4 turns to complete instead of 2 as designed for Normal GS. Ai is getting Tech as fast as 1 per turn.

    Game settings, see screen shots. No one is getting Any Tech boosts from set up options.

    Also 3rd one which shows a bug, when you meet an AI for 1st time, for some Leaders there is no text. Salamasina Of Polynesian Empire is prime example.

    Last screenshot is current turn Main screen.

    Save game for Raxxo and anyone else who cares to look.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
    KaTiON_PT likes this.

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