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General discussion for civics.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by raxo2222, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I'll get right on that Boss! :splat::trouble::deal:
     
  2. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I meant, that Thunderbird wants Pepper to polish Modern+ civics along with his future content without waiting for anyone :p
    That is he shouldn't wait for others with Modern and later era civics until earlier civics get polished.
    Also you are main guy balancing early to middle game civics.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  3. pepper2000

    pepper2000 King

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    I'll take a look at the civics and make tweaks eventually, but note that they are all in the core now.

    I don't mind whatever anyone else wants to do with them, except if we have any plans to remove or change prepreq techs for later civics, I'm not so keen on that.
     
  4. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I was thinking more that you'd want to expand more on them, but at least there is some increased and improved content there. I think there's room for more. So I didn't want you to feel like holding back on that.
     
  5. pepper2000

    pepper2000 King

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    Yeah, thanks. One thing I would like to do is have them give bonuses to certain future buildings.
     
  6. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Can I move E-Education to Virtual Society (X97) (just before Nanotech era) and Grid to Mass Surveillance (X101)?
    Other education civics are at
    Martial Law - Fascism , Modern X72
    Grid - Computer Networks, Modern X82
    Mind Control - Mesh Networks , Nanotech X99
    Machine Rule - Binary Legislation, Transhuman X108

    Compulsory Education - Compulsory Education, Industrial X70
    Propoganda - Fascism, Modern X72
    E-Education - Computer Networks, Modern X82
    Rapid Education - Exocortex Networks, Nanotech X104

    They don't fit there at all - its way too early for them.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  7. tmv

    tmv Emperor

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    :confused: They seem to fit pretty well when you compare the columns - and after the change you proposed Grid would come after Mind Control.
     
  8. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Are there any real world examples of Grid as current rule or E-education as current education system?
    They are way too early, when internet was in infancy.

    Grid and E-education should be at least in middle of Information era.
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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  10. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Those weren't made by Pepper, those could be even from RoM.
     
  11. pepper2000

    pepper2000 King

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    I support the change and had considered doing it myself (I was thinking E-Education at Cloud Computing or Online Community, but I think Virtual Society works better).
     
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  12. tmv

    tmv Emperor

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    E-education could already play a role in societies with very low density of population (Australia?), and Grid should certainly come before Mind Control (what is easier, watching all your actions or watching all your thoughts?). Both civics could already be implemented today (in advanced societies) as long as identification is handled somehow and (in case of Grid) privacy rights are nonexistant.
     
  13. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Maybe Mind Control is too early too?

    It could be closer to Transhuman era.
    Also there are multiple civics in same category, that aren't too far from each other.
     
  14. tmv

    tmv Emperor

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    That could be true.

    I don't think that's a problem, as long as this is not a "linear" civic category like language - you are supposed to make choices, and if these options have different "flavors", they could be on the same column without there being a problem.

    Only if civics of the same category and "flavor" are close to each other I would say there is a problem. In earlier versions, that was the case e.g. with Despotism/Monarchy, but now these have slightly different "flavors" and are a bit more separated in the tech tree.
     
  15. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Probably yes.
     
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  16. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Since there is no objections I'll move E-Education to Virtual Society, Grid to Mass Surveillance and I look for tech that would be good enough for mind control.

    Propaganda - Fascism - Modern X72
    E-Education - Virtual Society - Information X97
    Rapid Education - Exocortex Networks - Nanotech X104
    Instant Education - Mind Uploading - Transhuman X114

    What about sending Mind Control to Mind Uploading (X114)?

    Mind Control, Mind uploading and transhumanism are so Cyberpunk by the way.
    Also dark color of tech tree fits cyberpunk theme.

    Martial Law - Fascism - Modern X72
    Grid - Mass Surveillance - Nanotech X101
    Polystate - Mesh Networks - Nanotech X101
    Machine Rule - Binary Legislation - Transhuman X108
    Mind Control - Mind Uploading - Transhuman X114
    Engineered Society - Precision Social Engineering - Galactic X123
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  17. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    There are a lot of layers of the term 'mind control'. The word control means influence. Whether that control is absolute or not is a big part of a question we should begin to ask ourselves when looking at where to place on the tree. We have MANY means of creating mass mind influence today - in fact it's a big part of the news with how social media is being used for that and by whom and to what agendas. Even if we have the capacity of total control established at some point, would it be used to micromanage every task or agenda or would it be only used in certain cases?

    Personally, I think we might want to really consider breaking this concept up into stages and varying applications.
     
  18. pepper2000

    pepper2000 King

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    I disagree with that move. We already have two civics open at Mind Uploading. Also, it is possible to exercise control over thought patterns using much the same tools that artificial sensory data could be imparted. If not perfect, at least it should be enough to create a compliant population of citizens who are happy to spend their lives in the Matrix.
     
  19. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Well that's what I mean right there - it's not just a boolean concept of if we have it and are using it - it's all kinds of layers of how strong we have it and to what extent we're using it.
     
  20. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Then what tech would fit Mind Control?

    Spoiler :

    It effectively vanishes all crime and adds a lot of happiness.

    By the way Off Planet Dumping shouldn't be in Information era.
    By time you can send millions or billions tons of trash per year into outer space you would be able to recycle it with 99.999% efficiency.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018

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