General impression of BERT so far.

[CraigMak]

I don' think that I would ever want to make an aquatic city. I avoid coast like the plague as it is because boat units are generally quite OP and can take cities out very easily compared to other units in the game.

This is true with frigates in civ 5 as well. Avoiding coast is usually recommended unless you plan to spam navy all day at the detriment of your infrastructure to avoid cheesy naval rushes. If aquatic cities do not have extra defenses, they are going to be sitting ducks.

 

[Westwall]

one of them is a major one (which doesn't fall under "natural consequence" or "a rebalance of vanilla"). Though, even if you interpret things differently, it's definitely "back-of-the-box" and advertised as a selling point.

It might help for you to actually mention what you're talking about.

 

[lilgamefreek]

I forgot about Hybrid Affinities, which in my defense have still been advertised since the announcement of Rising Tide, as Barathor mentioned.

You speak as though you're a part of the dev team.

You do not know that I'm not....

Joking aside, the point of adding any of these features is to push sales. Like the famous doomsday device in Dr. Strangelove, the whole point of a major feature is lost if you keep it a secret.

For what I feel was a comparable ask in Gods and Kings, here is what the official site has to say about the revamp of Civ5's combat system that came with Gods and Kings (which saw units move from a 10hp model to a 100hp model)

World Domination
The fight for world domination is now more dynamic than ever before. The Gods and Kings expansion features a reworked combat system and AI that puts more emphasis on a balanced army composition. The new system allows your lines to stand longer than they could before, so you, as a player, can make smarter tactical decisions without worrying about a single unlucky roll of the dice.

 

[Kutuzov]

I hope RT will be good. Owing to Firaxis' actions, however, I have every reason to expect it to be poor and I shall certainly not be purchasing RT unless I learn of an overwhelmingly positive response from reviewers and the community. Firaxis has created many valuable and important games over the years but their ethical value is null and void at this point. Anything and everything the hype-boys at their marketing department may have to say is to be viewed with maximum skepticism.

I would encourage any civ fan to look elsewhere until Firaxis gets (?!) back on track. There are much better games than Beyond Earth for you to play and you will do everyone, Firaxis included, a massive disfavor if you mindlessly continue to purchase whatever cr*p they wish to sell you just because it's flashy and new. You don't even have to pay, or even look to a different developer: Civ IV, a game which most here probably already own, has an impressive list of high-quality mods that utterly destroy Beyond Earth in terms of creative genius and playability. Kael's Fall from Heaven II and Maniac's Planetfall are just two examples of mods of such high quality as to be considered entirely new games and will feel fresh even if you are burnt out on regular Civ IV. These are, of course, free of charge, with none of the cynical commercial interests exemplified by Firaxis' offerings these latest years.

I hope RT will be good

I'm sure there are some folks posting here who hope so too

Owing to Firaxis' actions, however, I have every reason to expect it to be poor

Then it will likely turn out to be very poor for you. It's easy to fulfill negative expectations. The mind set is negative then everything is scrutinized negatively. However, there are a (small) number of us posting here who are excited about this and will likely find the expansion to be good.

I shall certainly not be purchasing RT unless I learn of an overwhelmingly positive response from reviewers and the community.

Well, that's NOT going to happen, is it? I think we've already seen enough to know that it's not going to turn the tide of public opinion around. Most posters here will still 'hate' it because it didn't fix stations or the diplomacy revamp didn't go as far as they expected it too. We can 'hear the knives sharpening' in most threads about RT already.

Anything and everything the hype-boys at their marketing department may have to say is to be viewed with maximum skepticism.

They're just young developers talking about their first game and they're full of enthusiasm for their product and any sensible person should take it with a pinch of salt. I'm very confident that most folks here are more than intelligent enough not to be fooled anyway. But some are less willing to forgive their enthusiasm.

I would encourage any civ fan to look elsewhere until Firaxis gets (?!) back on track.

Oh, they're on track all right. Pretty much every game they've released has been rather poor when released and needed at least one expansions to raise it to the previous title in the franchise's glory. A lot of folks HATED Civ V when it was released and yet look what happened to it.

There are much better games than Beyond Earth for you to play...

Well, for those of us who enjoy playing the game, it's good enough to compete with those other games on my HD. It's indisputably not for you so please follow your own advice and go and play those other games that you think are much better. 'Endless Legend' is the absolute best 4x game of all time, so I've read

...you will do everyone, Firaxis included, a massive disfavor if you mindlessly continue to purchase whatever cr*p they wish to sell you just because it's flashy and new.

How insulting to everyone here. I have never mindlessly purchased any title from Firaxis and apart from a small number of posters here, neither did anyone else. Perhaps YOU did then? Is that what you're confessing to here?

You don't even have to pay, or even look to a different developer: Civ IV

Yay! It doesn't have 1UPT. Great game in its day but Civ V finished Civ IV for me. Just as Civ IV finished Civ 3 and Civ 3 finished Civ 2 for me as well.

 

[poom3619]

If you ask me, Strategist83's viewpoint is the exact opposite from what Firaxis' PR team was actually being paid to do. I don't think anyone would pay someone to talk badly (or "honestly" in cynic former-fan POV including myself)

There would be a sizable sales for BERT unless installing it would literally fry people's computer or something as bad. The bad game is one thing, but how can you expect it to get back on track if their game isn't profitable? Of course you can't make a good franchise game with just ton of money but I don't think having little money would make it any easier.

 

[whyidie]

I'm sure there are some folks posting here who hope so too

Then it will likely turn out to be very poor for you. It's easy to fulfill negative expectations. The mind set is negative then everything is scrutinized negatively. However, there are a (small) number of us posting here who are excited about this and will likely find the expansion to be good.

Well, that's NOT going to happen, is it? I think we've already seen enough to know that it's not going to turn the tide of public opinion around. Most posters here will still 'hate' it because it didn't fix stations or the diplomacy revamp didn't go as far as they expected it too. We can 'hear the knives sharpening' in most threads about RT already.

They're just young developers talking about their first game and they're full of enthusiasm for their product and any sensible person should take it with a pinch of salt. I'm very confident that most folks here are more than intelligent enough not to be fooled anyway. But some are less willing to forgive their enthusiasm.

Oh, they're on track all right. Pretty much every game they've released has been rather poor when released and needed at least one expansions to raise it to the previous title in the franchise's glory. A lot of folks HATED Civ V when it was released and yet look what happened to it.

Well, for those of us who enjoy playing the game, it's good enough to compete with those other games on my HD. It's indisputably not for you so please follow your own advice and go and play those other games that you think are much better. 'Endless Legend' is the absolute best 4x game of all time, so I've read

How insulting to everyone here. I have never mindlessly purchased any title from Firaxis and apart from a small number of posters here, neither did anyone else. Perhaps YOU did then? Is that what you're confessing to here?


Yay! It doesn't have 1UPT. Great game in its day but Civ V finished Civ IV for me. Just as Civ IV finished Civ 3 and Civ 3 finished Civ 2 for me as well.

great post.

 

[Nares]

They're just young developers talking about their first game and they're full of enthusiasm for their product and any sensible person should take it with a pinch of salt.

Just a pinch? More like a mountain.

great post.

You're right. I can't stop laughing at it.

Moderator Action: Telling someone you are laughing at their post is not acceptable.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Kutuzov]

You're right. I can't stop laughing at it.

Perhaps you would care to share what you find amusing with us then? Or perhaps you wish to lend the impression to us that you are one of those forumites who has neither the skill nor the wit to put together a counter-argument but instead resorts to 'laughing' at posts he disagrees with?

Moderator Action: Please report post and let the staff handle it. Answering a troll is being a troll.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Nares]

Or perhaps you wish to lend the impression to us that you are one of those forumites who has neither the skill nor the wit to put together a counter-argument but instead resorts to 'laughing' at posts he disagrees with?

Personal insults. How unsurprising.

Moderator Action: Report the post instead of answering. This answer is trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

I appreciate the invitation to discuss the topic. However, any counter-argument is effectively refuted by the sentiment that "if you don't like the game, don't play it." A crude conclusion to the discussion, but not one I entirely disagree with, hence why I did not purchase BE and won't be purchasing BERT.

Your's is hardly a unique position, as I'm sure you're aware, and I've found it echoed by a vocal minority across multiple gaming sites. I think the long term implications of it are bleak, and represent even greater difficulty for corporate studios to release quality games capable of meeting and exceeding revenue projections. But in the current climate, for being critical of a game, and not first worshipping at the altar of the all-mighty Developer, my input will be derided if not outright ignored.

And so, I'm willing to content myself with laughing at the opinion you express. You shouldn't take it personally. I gave you credit for not resorting to "if you don't like the game, then don't play it," even if I feel your opinion is short-sighted.

 

[Westwall]

But in the current climate, for being critical of a game, and not first worshipping at the altar of the all-mighty Developer, my input will be derided if not outright ignored.

Depends on the venue more than anything. You can find blindly loyal fans just as easily as blindly hateful trolls. Best to tune them both out, as neither adds anything to the discussion.

 

[Kutuzov]

Personal insults. How unsurprising.

I appreciate the invitation to discuss the topic. However, any counter-argument is effectively refuted by the sentiment that "if you don't like the game, don't play it." A crude conclusion to the discussion, but not one I entirely disagree with, hence why I did not purchase BE and won't be purchasing BERT.

Your's is hardly a unique position, as I'm sure you're aware, and I've found it echoed by a vocal minority across multiple gaming sites. I think the long term implications of it are bleak, and represent even greater difficulty for corporate studios to release quality games capable of meeting and exceeding revenue projections. But in the current climate, for being critical of a game, and not first worshipping at the altar of the all-mighty Developer, my input will be derided if not outright ignored.

And so, I'm willing to content myself with laughing at the opinion you express. You shouldn't take it personally. I gave you credit for not resorting to "if you don't like the game, then don't play it," even if I feel your opinion is short-sighted.

Well, if you choose to post...

You're right. I can't stop laughing at it.

... and failed to support your derision with anything to back it up, I don't think you have any right to be offended when you are called upon to defend your position. I would hate to think what would happen were I to attempt to perpetrate such a sordid little hit-and-run on these boards.

So, you choose not to respond and hide behind some laughable strawman where anything you will say to support your derision will simply be...

"effectively refuted by the sentiment that "if you don't like the game, don't play it."

Fair enough, you had your chance and now I know that you're not worth the time to interact with.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: This trolling, through personal sniping, needs to stop. It is not welcome here at CFC. If you have a problem with something someone posts, report the post and move on. Answering it only perpetuates the trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Gilleous]

Personally, I'm hopeful but naturally cautious. This is stand I take with any game no matter what their past is. Naturally, my caution can increase and can reach a point where the hope is overshadowed, but I don't think Firaxis reached that level with me.

I don't even think Beyond Earth was bad or poor. Disappointing, perhaps, but there has been some actually bad 4X games out there. Always have been, we just forget about them.

In short, I'm eager to see what Rising Tide brings.

People get defensive when they hear the phrase temper your expectations, but I think the real understanding comes from understanding your expectations. People forget it will impossible for any game to recapture the magic of a game you played when you were still much younger.

When you hit 30 (or as early 25+) you start quickly finding flaws in things, cynicism is abound and many are eager to prove their discerning eyes. In short, people get grumpy. With more age you either turn more bitter that things don't measure up to the classics, or realize you are becoming grumpy and a lot of it comes from nostalgia and things were not better, you just remember it as such.

Great, I am starting to sound like the kindly grandpa now...

What I was trying to say, temper your expectations doesn't mean accept crap, it means recognize what those expectations are and where they're coming from. Hard to see things with a virgin eye, especially if something has history, but it's something one should try at least by a little.

 

[Acken]

Well people that somehow liked CivBE probably won't be disapointed. But I'd advise everybody else to be cautious and wait for more information. Your appreciation will also depends on what ground you disliked BE. If you didn't like it for a lack of features but don't mind balance issues it will be easier to make you happy than if you have many more issues.

 

[CraigMak]

Well people that somehow liked CivBE probably won't be disapointed. But I'd advise everybody else to be cautious and wait for more information. Your appreciation will also depends on what ground you disliked BE. If you didn't like it for a lack of features but don't mind balance issues it will be easier to make you happy than if you have many more issues.

I have found BE to be a fun diversion from Civ 5, BNW. Mainly because I played enough BNW to desire something fresh. The game play is very obviously not on par with BNW but it's something different.

Don't get me wrong, I have written plenty of posts criticizing many aspects of its game play but it's still fun to play. You need to stick to MP only because the AI is terrible and take it in small portions. It's not one that you can play day after day and find involving game play for "hardcore" in depth strategy.

There are however steps you can take to make the game much more fun and involving. This includes banning some overpowered features such as artist colonists and The African Union. With these features excluded other choices become more novel. In fact most other game play decisions become more novel when you don't have massive OP amounts of culture that you're riding on.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

I'm buying it.

 

[Westwall]

People get defensive when they hear the phrase temper your expectations, but I think the real understanding comes from understanding your expectations. People forget it will impossible for any game to recapture the magic of a game you played when you were still much younger.

I disagree somewhat. In terms of 4x, I think Endless Legend captured a lot of that magic back with its questing system and how resources and minor factions are distributed throughout the map. The art direction alone is quite good and adds to the feeling of discovery. The game falls short in other areas, but I think there's a lot the BE devs can learn from its questing system, the assigned art and the way it's linked to minor factions.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Well, if Iceberg was ever good at something, it's art direction. If the game was just half as good as their artworks / assets used, it would be a masterpiece.

It's quite odd. Endless Space has a lot of problems, but something as simple as the presentation of the planets makes me come back from time to time even after all these years. They don't even get different textures to same planet types, but still: Whenever I see these beauties rotate in the management screen, I wish I could build a Kerbal rocket and fly over there to explore them.

Maybe that's what makes classics: They are more than just mechanics and shiny graphics. It's the compelling story or universe / setting that makes us come back to them.

 

[Westwall]

That's definitely what made SMAC so memorable. The mechanics really weren't all that different from Civ 2, but what set it apart and made it an instant classic for many was the world it built.

It had in-game artwork or cinematics for just about everything, and the personalized responses and declarations from faction leaders made diplomacy a far more immersive experience than BE, despite the leaders being just static portraits.

That's really what's missing from BE right now, despite the biome variations and superior graphics and unit animations. That's why critics say it has no heart or soul. The nuances just aren't there to augment the experience. In SMAC, the Transcendence ending was a movie followed by a text interlude that takes you eons into the future. And that's not even counting all the monuments and memorials recapping your experience and telling you all the ways you'll be remembered through the ages.

Compare that to the single "pat on the back" ending card you get in BE that feels more like a slap in the face.

 

[Gorbles]

I really don't remember diplomacy being that special in SMAC.

Can you help me? Nope.
Can you help me with something else? Nope, heathen.
What about this other thing? Well, if you give me credits and your most advanced weapon tech . .

More options != more meaningful options. BE is also lacking in that regard, but I don't think I'm ever going to stop getting confused at these rose-tinted views of SMAC. I should download it to my laptop from GOG, I had to take it off my private Dropbox due to space issues.