General Politics Thread

[Samson]

TIL more about the humungous farming law protest going on in India, from "The Daily Show" than I've heard on any mainstream US news network.

According to one of the clips, the protest apparently, according to some estimates, at some point involved more people than there are adults in the entire US.

The topic is fascinating and if anyone has more insight I'd love to hear your thoughts. I know a couple of folks here touched on it briefly some time back.

I have been following this a bit. Previously India has gone a long way to protect its farmers, principally with fixed prices for farm products. The current government wants to get rid of that, which people think will end up with a race to the bottom, with the big businesses winning and the small farmers losing. More than 86 percent of India’s cultivated farmland is controlled by smallholder farmers who own less than two hectares (five acres) of land each. They fear that they just do not have enough bargaining power to get the kinds of prices they need for a decent standard of living when they negotiate to sell their produce to larger companies.

On top of this is the usual race/ethnic issues, with many of the farmers being sikh while the government is hindu nationalist. Because the the growing season, the farmers have been able to be away from their farms from November to ~ April.There have been a lot of protests in and around Delhi, but they seem to be spreading.

The media has been solidly on the governments side, and has been presenting the farmers protest as sikh separatism which I THINK is completely made up. There is crackdown of disent (esp. from muslims) more widely.

 

[EgonSpengler]

The Washington Post, 10 Feb 2021 - "Most Republicans see Democrats not as political opponents but as enemies"

[...]the idea that a Democratic legislator will feel beholden to Republican constituents — or vice versa — seems almost quaint.


That said, we run the risk of establishing an equivalence where one may not exist. For example, we have new polling from CBS News, conducted by YouGov, which explores how members of each political party tend to think of members of the opposing party.

Most Democrats say that they tend to view Republicans as political opponents. Most Republicans say that they tend to view Democrats as enemies.

For those of us on the Left, this isn't really news, although it sucks to have our worries confirmed for us. But I hope at least some conservatives can take this in.

The gap between the two parties on this question is stark. There’s a 32-point difference on net between how Democrats view Republicans and vice versa, on a question positing that members of a political party might be viewed with overt hostility.

When presented with an opportunity to opine on the characteristics of those in the opposing party, Democrats were more likely than Republicans to say their opponents were closed-minded — but Republicans were significantly more likely to say Democrats were unpatriotic, immoral or lazy.

Neither Democrats nor Republicans see the opposing party as particularly ethical, but Democrats are twice as likely to say the Republican Party cares about the middle class as Republicans are to say the same of the Democratic Party. Democrats are three times as likely to say that the GOP is respectful and tolerant of others as Republicans are to say the same of the Democrats.

This poll suggests that conservatives who feel 'oppressed', disrespected, or viewed with disdain by people on the Left might be in their own heads a little bit. If anything, the ill will in this country seems to flow more from Right to Left than the other way.

 

[Sommerswerd]

The Washington Post, 10 Feb 2021 - "Most Republicans see Democrats not as political opponents but as enemies"

For those of us on the Left, this isn't really news, although it sucks to have our worries confirmed for us. But I hope at least some conservatives can take this in.

This poll suggests that conservatives who feel 'oppressed', disrespected, or viewed with disdain by people on the Left might be in their own heads a little bit. If anything, the ill will in this country seems to flow more from Right to Left than the other way.

Looking at the CBS article, discussing the YouGov polling that the WaPo article is based on entitled: Many favor conviction as Trump Impeachment Trial Begins, what jumped out at me was the poll showing that over 70% of Republicans would consider leaving the Republican party to join a Trump party, including 30% of Republicans who would do so right now if Trump announced he was forming a new party.

Then, just over two-thirds of self-identified Republicans today say they might even join a new Trump political party separate from the GOP, including a third who'd say yes to that idea right now. (For those Republicans who say loyalty to Mr. Trump is very important, that "yes" to joining rises to a majority.) And two-thirds of Republicans still echo Mr. Trump's claims following the election and still do not consider President Biden the legitimate winner.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/

What that means, is the Republicans are caught in a pretty precarious position politically, in terms of holding onto their power. On the one hand if they ban Trump from holding future office, they kill the possibility of him running third party and taking the majority of the party's base with him. But with over 2/3rds of their voters already ready to defect over Trump, they are probably worried that any attempt to break form him might backfire into outrage from his supporters, who may end up defecting anyway.

Now to me, the most shrewd political play here is probably to actually convict Trump and bar him from future office, thus crushing the threat of him forming a new party, centered around his renewed candidacy. I doubt Trump would go through the trouble of forming a new party if he himself could not be the center of attention in it.

 

[Samson]

Looking at the CBS article, discussing the YouGov polling that the WaPo article is based on entitled: Many favor conviction as Trump Impeachment Trial Begins, what jumped out at me was the poll showing that over 70% of Republicans would consider leaving the Republican party to join a Trump party, including 30% of Republicans who would do so right now if Trump announced he was forming a new party.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-trial-trump-conviction-opinion-poll/

What that means, is the Republicans are caught in a pretty precarious position politically, in terms of holding onto their power. On the one hand if they ban Trump from holding future office, they kill the possibility of him running third party and taking the majority of the party's base with him. But with over 2/3rds of their voters already ready to defect over Trump, they are probably worried that any attempt to break form him might backfire into outrage from his supporters, who may end up defecting anyway.

Now to me, the most shrewd political play here is probably to actually convict Trump and bar him from future office, thus crushing the threat of him forming a new party, centered around his renewed candidacy. I doubt Trump would go through the trouble of forming a new party if he himself could not be the center of attention in it.

There is also talk of a new anti-trump republican party. Either would be pretty good for the left I guess.

Dozens of former Republican officials who view the party as unwilling to stand up to Donald Trump and his attempts to undermine US democracy are in talks to form a centre-right breakaway party, four people involved in the discussions have said.
The early stage discussions include former elected Republicans, former officials in the Republican administrations of Ronald Reagan, George HW Bush, George W Bush and Trump, ex-Republican ambassadors and Republican strategists, the people involved told Reuters.

 

[Sommerswerd]

There is also talk of a new anti-trump republican party. Either would be pretty good for the left I guess.

Any such party would obviously take a drubbing initially, and cause the presumably remaining Trump-Republican party to also take heavy losses in elections. However, I think that if a centrist, right-leaning party managed to survive a couple election cycles, they would quickly begin to draw in voters from the Democrats, possibly more so than the Trump Republicans, until ultimately, they would end up overtaking the Democratic party rather than the Trump Republicans.

The way it would play out I think, is that the new Center-right party would start with about 10-15% of the vote, while the Trump-Republicans would have about 35-40% and the Democrats would have the remaining 45-50%. But after 2 or three election cycles, say 4-6 years, the Center-Right party would be up to 40-45%, the Trump-Republicans would be steady at 35-40% and the Democrats would be down to 15-20%.

 

[EnglishEdward]

What that means, is the Republicans are caught in a pretty precarious position politically, in terms of holding onto their power. On the one hand if they ban Trump from holding future office, they kill the possibility of him running third party and taking the majority of the party's base with him.

Yes, which is why, contrary to nearly all the news pundits, I think the current impeachment may actually result in a conviction.

Donald Trump, is for the GOP, now LOSER baggage, and they would be wise not to go into primaries/mid terms with him chained to their ankles.

The smarter ones have worked that out; the question in their mind must be how their local registered republicans will vote in their next primary.

However at the moment many Republican politicians still seem to be suffering from Stockholm Symptom being more
or less enthralled to Donald Trump. The question is when, rather than, whether that pervasive influence will wear off.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Conversely, if it was Trump who actually broke off and formed his own party, I doubt he would be able to actually ever draw more that 25-30% to go with him leaving the Republicans with 20-25%. And whether the remaining Republican party was pulled farther right in a vain attempt to win the Trumpers back, or just gave up on their ideals and settled into a more moderate position would determine whether they could draw in Democrats, but as the original GOP, I don't think they would ever be able to draw more than 5-10% or so away, so the Democrats would remain the plurality party until either the Trumpers, or the Republicans gave up.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Here's more great news: NPR, 11 Feb 2021 - "A 'Scary' Survey Finding: 4 In 10 Republicans Say Political Violence May Be Necessary"

The level of distrust among Republicans evident in the survey was such that about eight in 10 said the current political system is "stacked against conservatives and people with traditional values." A majority agreed with the statement, "The traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it."

So this hints at the sense of persecution that some conservatives feel, as in the CBS News/YouGov poll cited up above. One of the things about some conservative positions that I've never been able to square is the need for conformity and consistency. For example, I recall that some of the resistance to same-sex marriage framed the issue as a defense of traditional marriage, but traditional marriage was never under attack. Nobody was ever saying that straight couples couldn't or shouldn't get married. At least, I never heard that.

The survey found that to be a minority sentiment — two out of three Americans overall rejected the use of violence in pursuit of political ends – and Cox emphasized that the finding reflected "attitudes and beliefs" rather than a disposition to do something.


"If I believe something, I may act on it, and I may not," Cox says. "We shouldn't run out and say, 'Oh, my goodness, 40% of Republicans are going to attack the Capitol,' But under the right circumstances, if you have this worldview, then you are more inclined to act in a certain way if you are presented with that option."

Fair enough. But maybe we should say 'Oh, my goodness, 40% of Republicans are going to attack someone or something' when they decide it's warranted. And apparently they're terrified of other people who don't want to live as they do. I remember Christopher Hitchens once saying that he would be perfectly happy to "live and let live", but there are some people who cannot or will not do the same. Maybe he was right. Hitchens was talking specifically about American religious extremists, not run-of-the-mill conservatives.

On all those questions, Cox says, white evangelicals are "politically quite distinct." Majorities of white mainline Protestants, Black Protestants, Catholics, followers of non-Christian religions and the religiously unaffiliated all viewed Biden's victory as legitimate.

The AEI survey found that white evangelicals were especially prone to subscribe to the QAnon movement's conspiracy theories. Twenty-seven percent said it was "mostly" or "completely" accurate to say Trump "has been secretly fighting a group of child sex traffickers that include prominent Democrats and Hollywood elites." That share was higher than for any other faith group and more than double the support for QAnon beliefs evident among Black Protestants, Hispanic Catholics and non-Christians.

"As with a lot of questions in the survey, white evangelicals stand out in terms of their belief in conspiracy theories and the idea that violence can be necessary," Cox says. "They're far more likely to embrace all these different conspiracies."

 

[Sommerswerd]

FTR, I don't think there is any chance that enough Republicans will vote to convict Trump to actually convict and subsequently ban him from future office, regardless of how well the House Managers present their case, and how bumbling and ridiculous Trump's defense is. However, I thought it would be a nice thought exercise to speculate what even the impossible, 17 Republican theoretical conviction vote would look like, presuming of course that all 48 Democrats and the 2 Independents vote to convict as expected.

So the first 6 must-haves are obviously the 6 Republicans who voted that the trial itself was Constitutional.
1. Romney
2. Toomey
3. Murkowski
4. Collins
5. Sasse
6. Cassidy - I think the 5 above are a lock to convict, but thinking about it, if Cassidy is going to stand on principle, ie., "I'm following the Constitution and voting for who I think makes the best case", he's unnecessarily painted himself into a corner if he wanted to acquit Trump later... so I'm thinking he's pretty much made up his mind that he's leaning towards voting to convict.

These next ones I think are actually at least possible, because of various factors.
7. McConnell - I think McConnell would definitely be the 17th vote if it came down to it. He's newly re-elected and unlikely to run again so he can convict with impunity. Plus he's already openly condemned Trump. I just think he's less likely to stick his neck out for no reason (cue the turtle jokes) if there isn't going to be a conviction.
8. Lee - He ratted Trump out for accidentally calling him, when trying to reach Tuberville to beg him to stall the vote, while the insurrection was in progress and Pence was being rushed off the floor as the insurgents were trying to break into the Senate floor. He wouldn't have disclosed that if he was completely loyal to Trump.
9. Graham - He is such a spineless, shameless opportunistic, self-serving, flip-flopper that I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he would stab Trump in the back without hesitation if he felt like that was the way the wind was blowing. So he's a possible for sure.
10. Portman - He is one of the least conservative Republican Senators, representing a purple state, and I believe he has announced he won't seek re-election, blaming the partisan gridlock. That may be a signal that he is planning to dump Trump on his way out.
11. Rubio - If Rubio wants to run for President again (he does), he needs Trump out of the way. So he may vote to convict for purely self serving reasons.
12. Scott - He is the only black Republican Senator, so he may have some misgivings about Trump leading a Motley crew of Proud Boys and other assorted white supremacists to attack the capitol. The problem is that he is up for re-election in 2022, so he has a lot of pressure on him to avoid a primary.
13. Grassley - He's 87 years old and he's been in the Senate for 40 years so I'm thinking that he's not going to seek re-election in 2022. Having served that long, Grassley may also still have some affection for quaint notions like Democratic norms and peaceful transitions of power. He may also have some sense of friendship/collegiality with Biden, having served together so long and resent Trump for denying Biden's win.

These next Senators I regard pretty much as impossible, but they are all rated less conservative than Cassidy, who has already voted against Trump so that's at least a consideration.

14. Johnson - He's from Wisconsin as well.
15. Sullivan - He's from Alaska like Murkowski and just re-elected, so safe from any primary challenges. Also a lawyer, FWIW.
16. Thune - Facing re-election in 2022 and from South Dakota so the longest of shots, but may have Presidential aspirations (See Rubio)
17. Young - Very young and Facing re-election in Indiana in 2022, but also a college professor and a lawyer, so who knows?
18. Burr - Also a long shot, from North Carolina and facing re-election in 2022.
19. Shelby - From Alabama and facing re-election in 2022, but also a lawyer.
20. Hagerty - He's brand new to the Senate so, no voting record, but he's a newly elected in Tennessee, so possibly an arch-conservative.

Well... I must say that was... an interesting (depressing) exercise.

 

[tamyrlin]

TIL more about the humungous farming law protest going on in India, from "The Daily Show" than I've heard on any mainstream US news network.

According to one of the clips, the protest apparently, according to some estimates, at some point involved more people than there are adults in the entire US.

The topic is fascinating and if anyone has more insight I'd love to hear your thoughts. I know a couple of folks here touched on it briefly some time back.

The protest involving more people than there are adults in India is a general all India strike from work "Bharat Bandh" . Its not a protest more of strike from work , you simply don't attend work that day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indian_general_strike

The trade unions involved included the Indian National Trade Union Congress (INTUC), All India Trade Union Congress (AITUC), Hind Mazdoor Sabha (HMS), Centre of Indian Trade Unions (CITU), All India United Trade Union Centre (AIUTUC), Trade Union Coordination Centre (TUCC), Self-Employed Women's Association (SEWA), All India Central Council of Trade Unions (AICCTU), Labour Progressive Federation (LPF) and United Trade Union Congress (UTUC).[1]

Several other organisations were involved in the strike. The All India Bank Employees' Association (AIBEA) stated that nearly 30 thousand bank employees were to participate in the strike.[3] The Independent Sectoral Federations and Associations (ISFA) released strike notice to workers of all industries, calling scheme workers, construction workers, beedi workers, domestic workers, agricultural workers, vendors, hawkers, and self-employed people in rural as well as urban India to come onto the streets for chakka jam,[3] a demonstration meant to block traffic. According to a statement made by the CPIM, there was "massive participation"[11] by people who did not receive strike notice, such as informal sector workers, students, women, and peasants.[2][12][11] Approximately a quarter of all working-aged people in India participated in the general strike.[11]

There is a need for significant reforms in the agricultural sector. Half the country is still engaged in agriculture with very low incomes, even in a poor country like India. The idea was that entry of corporates in theory will help increase productivity and raise incomes. Practically though, the bargaining capacity of a poor individual farmer is pretty limited. They will be simply taken advantage of without any regulation and support. Also even if let us say things work out well and will raise incomes of farmers, the increased mechanization means the number of farmers required will be much lesser. Where will the remaining farmers find jobs? The Indian economy has not been doing very well for the last 4/5 years. Unemployment has been very high, even pre covid. Also, the current supply chains employ a lot of middlemen. If they are to be bypassed, there will be a very big job loss for these workers.

This government is however known to think, problems can be solved with a magic wand
1) Demonetization in 2016. On 8th November evening, they announced all 500/1000 denomination notes are no longer legal tender and need to be exchanged in banks for new notes which the government I yet to manufacture. Supposedly this will curb black money in the economy. People with illegal money will be afraid to return money to the bank, So non returned money government can reprint and make a profit.
However 99.3% of the money came back to banks actually. The complete economy took a big hit, a lot of people lost lives due to waiting in long queues or not being able to pay for medical attention . A lot of manhours were lost. Rural India particularly farmers were hit due to the absence of liquidity and cash.
2) GST - Instead of each state having its own tax policies a standardized and simplified tax regime would help. But the government did it in a hurry, most of the small businesses couldn't change their business/tax filing systems and lost to big businesses that could.
3) Covid lockdown - We had a very strict sudden 1-month lockdown of everything, not taking into account that there is a huge population of migrant workers in cities who earn day to day wages which they pay rent to buy food. There was no way for them to buy food or pay rent. If they want to go back to their villages, all transport is stopped. Some of them traveled or cycled 100's of km by a walk on roads with luggage, some of them died.
Only much later government tried to arrange food supplies and special trains to help them. By that time damage was done.

Anyway long story short, the government comes with a badly planned solution for reforms in the agricultural sector which employs 50% of the population. That too during the covid time, doesn't consult with anyone, including farmers before making these huge decisions.

 

[Samson]

Turkey summons US ambassador over statement on killings

My reading is that Turkish troops attacked a cave where 13 prisoners were held. Turkey says the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) executed the captives, the PKK said the 13 died when Turkish forces bombed the cave where the men were being kept.

The US said it “deplores the death of Turkish citizens”, and condemned the killings if it was confirmed that responsibility lay with the PKK. That very big if has Turkey upset:

Turkey summoned the United States ambassador to Ankara on Monday to convey “in the strongest terms” its reaction to a statement on the killing of 13 kidnapped Turks in Iraq, which President Tayyip Erdogan called “a farce”.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused the United States of supporting “terrorists”.
“The statement made by the United States is a farce,” Erdogan said on Monday. “You said you did not support terrorists, when in fact you are on their side and behind them,” Erdogan said in televised remarks criticising the US State Department statement

Turkey this month launched a military operation against PKK bases in northern Iraq that Erdogan said on Monday was designed in part to free the 13 hostages.
At least 48 members of the Kurdish armed group were also killed during the operation, according to Turkey’s defence minister.
The PKK, dubbed a “terrorist” group by the US and Turkey’s other Western allies, has been waging an armed rebellion against the Turkish state since 1984 that is believed to have left tens of thousands dead.
​

 

[r16]

and ı was wondering what ı had forgetten to write . Ah yes , Americans claiming they would say bad things about seperatists if and when they learn if the seperatists did it . What happened to their men on the ground , skiing holiday in Swiss Alps ?

 

[Samson]

Greta Thunberg has been criticised for publicizing a toolkit (a bit of a weird website, it could be highly secure or it could be running something odd. Content is in the spoiler below, you do not need to click on it.) that lists the mildest, basic protest methods. It is regarding the farmers protest in India, but the methods are very broadly applicable, basically find out what is going on, discus it online and with your elected representatives and go to demos.

For this she shall be investigated by police, authorities said, claiming it was designed to “encourage disaffection and ill-will” against the government.

“Preliminary enquiry has revealed that the ‘toolkit’ in question appears to have been created by a [Canadian] pro-Khalistani Organisation ‘Poetic Justice Foundation’,” police said in a statement, citing Sikh separatists who want to create a homeland of Khalistan in India’s northern Punjab state.

Police said the toolkit creators appeared to “create disharmony among various social, religious and cultural groups and encourage disaffection and ill-will against the (government) of India”.

Spoiler The toolkit :

Farmers Protest In India

Note: This is a document meant to enable anyone unfamiliar with the ongoing farmers protests in India to better understand the situation and make decisions on how to support the farmers based on their own analysis.

As per the agriculture census of 2015-16, the majority of land holdings in India — 86 percent — are small and marginal. They are less than two hectares in size, and these households’ incomes are already below what they spend on consumption expenditure.

These historically marginalised farmers, who were first exploited by feudal landlords and colonisers pre-Independence, and by globalising and liberalizing policies since the 1990s, are the backbone of the Indian economy even today. Despite thousands of suicides caused due to indebtedness and lack of structural support, an absence of solutions to deeply-rooted problems has further been exacerbated by the new farm laws that were passed without any consultation with these farmers who provide for a majority of the Indian population's daily food consumption.

Instead of being supported to become self-reliant and prosperous, a majority of farmers are increasingly being subjected to the control of large corporations and international institutions whose sole focus is profits, and necessarily involves increased exploitation of nature. The same destructive forces that are destroying the planet are the ones taking over the lives of our country's most populous and important demographic, subjecting them to increasing hegemony and repeating similar patterns of privatization being seen across the globe - from the Philippines to Colombia.

This is not just about one country and its oppressed peoples, it's about common people across the world having the opportunity to be self-sufficient, feel secure about providing for their families, and live well.

On their own terms, as any democracy true to its name should facilitate.

Listed below are a number of resources that provide more insight on URGENT ACTIONS

1. Tweet your support to the Indian Farmers. Use hashtag #FarmersProtest #StandWithFarmers
2. Call/Email any of your govt representatives and ask them to take action, Sign online Petitions and take action to Divest from fossil fuel industries.
3. Organise an on-ground action near the closest Indian Embassy, Media House or your local Govt. office on 13th/14th February, 2021. Share pictures on social media using the hashtag #FarmersProtest #StandWithFarmers

PRIOR ACTIONS

1. Share solidarity Photo/Video Message on social media with hashtags #FarmersProtest #StandWithFarmers
2. Digital Strike: #AskIndiaWhy Video/Photo Message
3. Keep tweeting - Feel free to tag @PMOIndia, @nstomar (Minister of Agriculture & Farmer Welfare), your own heads of state & others who ought to take note, like the IMF, WTO, FAO, World Bank
4. Read more about the issue - https://ruralindiaonline.org/en/stories/categories/farming-and-its-crisis/
5. Physical Actions - Near Indian Embassies, Govt. offices, Media houses
6. Watch out for (or Join) the Farmers’ March / Parade (a first of its kind) into Delhi and back to the borders.
7. Call/Email any of your govt representatives and ask them to take action, Sign online Petitions and take action to Divest from fossil fuels.

Get a complete picture through the Farmers’ Protest Doc

How can you help?

1. Participate in (or organise an) on-ground protest.

Either find protests happening in your city/state/country and participate in large (or small) numbers or organize one. In addition to the options below, you are encouraged to organise solidarity protests either at/near Indian Embassies, near your local Govt. offices or offices. Do continue to organise gatherings as and when possible.


Resources to help organise:

1. #StandWithFarmers Solidarity Video

Record a video (preferably in landscape mode) to share your message of support to protesting farmers. OR Hold a poster/paper/chart/card with a solidarity message anywhere in your city/town/village and take pictures.

1. #AskIndiaWhy & Via Campesina Digital Campaigns

• India has a long history of human rights violations, violence, and a cruel indifference for its most vulnerable citizens
• India's farmers & other citizens need the global community to pay attention — the world needs to know that India is ignoring the voices of the marginalised communities. We need solidarity and support from across the world.
• Digital Strike with the hashtags #StandWithFarmers and #FarmersProtest

1. Take part in tweeting support along with the world

Hashtags: #StandwithFarmers #FarmersProtest

Accounts to Tag: @thepmo, @UNDP, @UNFAOand @PMOIndia, @UNDP_India, @nstomar, @timestrolley (if on Twitter). If willing, do tag your Heads of State, the IMF, the WB and/or the WTO.

1. Other Actions

• Contact a local Representative

It is paramount to put international pressure on India’s Government. Click the buttons below to find templates, contact information on your local representative(s) to do your civic duty, whichever may be your country.

Call Your Representatives.

Send Emails to your govt. representatives

• Sign Petitions

In less than 1 minute, sign a petition aimed at condemning state violence and demanding the Indian Government to listen to the protestors and not silence and mock their dissent.

1. Petition to Abolish the 3 Farm Bills & Support the Protesting Farmers
2. Petition to UN - Freedom to express dissent is a key pillar of democracy
3. How you can petition the UK MPs to support the farmers in India

More Information - Important Links

Trolley Times (Farmers at the borders’ Newsweekly)

------

RISE UP AND RESIST!

THANK YOU! <3

Someone has been locked up for about this^

Disha Ravi, 22, is arrested for sharing online ‘toolkit’ with information on the farmers’ protest

The arrest of a 22-year-old Indian climate activist accused of sharing an online “toolkit” of information on the weeks-long farmers’ protests has caused outrage, with many calling it an attack on free speech.
Delhi Police did not say what Ravi had been charged with but accused her of being “a key conspirator in the document’s formulation and dissemination”.
Jairam Ramesh, a former minister and lawmaker for the opposition Congress party, called Ravi’s arrest and detention “completely atrocious” and an “unwarranted harassment and intimidation”.
A coalition of activist groups demanded Ravi’s release and said it was “extremely worried for her safety and wellbeing”.
On Monday, local media reported that arrest warrants had been issued against two more activists – Nikita Jacob and Shantanu.
​

 

[Chicken Pizza]

I don't know if it's actually true, but I heard an interesting thing on YouTube about the left political parties in Sweden, with (S) in charge.

After getting rid of the economical injustices, a great achievment, there wasn't any struggle between workers and... whatever, anymore. (S) had played out their role, so to stay in power they started to invent struggles that don't really exist.

All women are opressed by men. All swedes are racists, and if you don't admitt it it's because it's a structural problem or you haven't looked deep enough inside yourself.

Or you're not multicultural enough, a very serious problem with a very simple solution: just give people asylum until the country is 10% afghanistanians with a terrible view on other humans, call it a challenge instead of a problem and ignore it.

Gradually make being proud of your country, gender, history and religion, something ugly. Forbid the swedish flag, because it may offend immigrants. Forbid the words him and her, and make all boys and girls wear the same clothes, never blue or pink.

Voila, if there wasn't a gender war, identity chrisises and racism before, there sure is now. Divide and conquer. I'm not a right wing extremist, I fear them even more, but they've got some points.

 

[Gorbles]

I don't know if it's actually true, but I heard an interesting thing on YouTube about the left political parties in Sweden, with (S) in charge.

After getting rid of the economical injustices, a great achievment, there wasn't any struggle between workers and... whatever, anymore. (S) had played out their role, so to stay in power they started to invent struggles that don't really exist.

All women are opressed by men. All swedes are racists, and if you don't admitt it it's because it's a structural problem or you haven't looked deep enough inside yourself.

Or you're not multicultural enough, a very serious problem with a very simple solution: just give people asylum until the country is 10% afghanistanians with a terrible view on other humans, call it a challenge instead of a problem and ignore it.

Gradually make being proud of your country, gender, history and religion, something ugly. Forbid the swedish flag, because it may offend immigrants. Forbid the words him and her, and make all boys and girls wear the same clothes, never blue or pink.

Voila, if there wasn't a gender war, identity chrisises and racism before, there sure is now. Divide and conquer. I'm not a right wing extremist, I fear them even more, but they've got some points.

Sounds like you found one of those alt-right social media types that like to make up nonsense about Sweden.

I recommend not parroting stuff YouTubers come out with as fact.

 

[Chicken Pizza]

Sounds like you found one of those alt-right media types that like to make up nonsense about Sweden.

I watch them sometimes, always with a critical mind. In this case they seem to actually have a point.

I recommend not parroting stuff YouTubers come out with as fact.

What should I be parroting instead?

 

[Snowygerry]

As general rule - if there is U-tube movie made about it - it is a lie

 

[Wastl]

I watch them sometimes, always with a critical mind. In this case they seem to actually have a point.

They have a point in the same way someone screaming "we are all going to die!!1!" has. In that, sure, eventually everyone is going to die, but that's not what that person means. Their actual points are gibberish and have nothing to do with reality.

What should I be parroting instead?

Nothing. Which is the common sense thing to do. If some youtube-video is trying to tell you how things REALLY are, you can basically just throw it out right away. No one who tries to actually be informative uses that kind of style.

 

[Gorbles]

I watch them sometimes, always with a critical mind. In this case they seem to actually have a point.

No they don't. It's made-up. It's fabricated. You are buying into a lie for whatever reason makes that lie appealing to you.

What should I be parroting instead?

What Wastl said.

 

[Chicken Pizza]

If some youtube-video is trying to tell you how things REALLY are, you can basically just throw it out right away.

Civfanatics posts too?