General Politics Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
The most pressing practical question is whether it would even stand up in the courts on constitutional grounds if pursued.

I don’t think either Pompeo or Kerry (who in 2018 was a private citizen like Pompeo is today) have the weight to meaningfully impact foreign policy with what it is they were doing.
You really think all those senior politicians got involved even though it would have no effect? I do not believe that.
 
The most pressing practical question is whether it would even stand up in the courts on constitutional grounds if pursued.
Which is of course irrelevant to it not being enforced, and why it not being enforced is apparently a "good thing".
 
In a two party system which is as openly corrupt as the US turning law enforcement loose on high officials is a real Pandora's Box because then it's a zero sum game.

Above board coups would be on the table.
 
In a two party system which is as openly corrupt as the US turning law enforcement loose on high officials is a real Pandora's Box because then it's a zero sum game.

Above board coups would be on the table.
I mean, arguably, it's already at that level. I'm not pretending that in any way the Democrats are perfect, or even a force for good, or whatever, but the Republicans can and will burn any bridges they want to get what they want. It's only a matter of time. So, eh? They're going to call for the heads of their opponents regardless. They're already tapping into the Q-adjacent idiocy of there being secret trials and Trump secretly still being the real President. The things normally left unspoken are more and more being said.

Meanwhile the sitting POTUS claims he doesn't want to change his mind on marijuana, puts an emphasis on bipartisanship, and is the embodiment of rich upper class regardless so it doesn't really matter to him which party is in control. Coups are irrelevant for people like that. The change in ruling party only affects citizens negatively; not the politicians themselves (with some exceptions).
 
I read this morning that Gen. Mark Milley, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, was last Fall-Winter genuinely preparing to repel a coup attempt by Trump and his zombies to prevent President-elect Biden from taking office. He reportedly told aides it was a "Reichstag moment." Having identified the FBI, CIA and Defense Department as being key to any such attempt to prevent the newly-elected administration from being sworn in, Milley confronted the White House Chief of Staff about rumors the administration was about to fire the director of the CIA and replace her with a Trump loyalist. So. Yeah.

EDIT: Oops. Cross-posted with the other thread.
 
You really think all those senior politicians got involved even though it would have no effect? I do not believe that.
Not to the extent that prosecution would be considered, no. Nor to the extent that it would impede American policymakers; did Iran become more hostile to the U.S. after Kerry met their minister and tried to salvage the nuclear deal that Trump ripped up? Will Pompeo’s meeting with whoever undermine Biden’s executive authority? I’m not seeing it.
Which is of course irrelevant to it not being enforced, and why it not being enforced is apparently a "good thing".
I don’t think it’s necessary to be enforced for the reasons I stated just above.
 
I read this morning that Gen. Mark Milley, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, was last Fall-Winter genuinely preparing to repel a coup attempt

if Milley can be so far mistaken about something he has direct personal knowledge of, he ought to consider another line of work.
 
if Milley can be so far mistaken about something he has direct personal knowledge of, he ought to consider another line of work.
But he wasn't mistaken. Trump was trying to overturn the election and still is.
 
if Milley can be so far mistaken about something he has direct personal knowledge of, he ought to consider another line of work.
Yes and no. How seriously was that taken, what sort of energy was invested in contingency planning, and how much of it is just to sell books?

But that was my first impression too—the head of the Joint Chiefs thinks there would be an attempted coup? Too much cable news?

But he wasn't mistaken.
He most certainly was mistaken; Trump left office January 20th. As a private citizen, he can say whatever he wants but there’s been no coup.
 
He most certainly was mistaken; Trump left office January 20th. As a private citizen, he can say whatever he wants but there’s been no coup.
The events in question all happened prior to Jan 20th.
 
The events in question all happened prior to Jan 20th.
I would call it a rather crappy coup then if he had to resign on the same day anyway. :mischief:

I’m holding back on calling this because it really depends on how much time and energy was spent on this. We have contingency planning for many things that are remote in possibility, but I doubt any generals are dedicating themselves to preventing Canada from getting ahold of a nuclear bomb and ransoming the U.S. for New England.
 
I would call it a rather crappy coup then if he had to resign on the same day anyway. :mischief:

I’m holding back on calling this because it really depends on how much time and energy was spent on this....
A poorly planned, crappy coup attempt to overturn an election is still an attempt to overturn an election. Trump called election officials in both GA and AZ to try and persuade them to change the results. His lawyers filed 60 lawsuits to do the same. He incited a mob to get Pence to change the results. Bay of Pigs was a crappy coup attempt as was what ever happened in Jorden recently. Failing doesn't mean one didn't try.
 
A poorly planned, crappy coup attempt to overturn an election is still an attempt to overturn an election. Trump called election officials in both GA and AZ to try and persuade them to change the results. His lawyers filed 60 lawsuits to do the same.
Now that you’ve added these specifics I feel better equipped to answer.

Perhaps there is room for a contingency plan then if the courts hold that Trump’s challenges are not held up—as I’m sure they wouldn’t be. Again, how much time and effort spent is the key.

The way this has hit the news though makes it sound like Trump was going to wall himself up in the White House and this was some immediate danger that required emergency planning. I don’t think that was ever a possibility at all.
 
Time and energy spent by whom?
 
A poorly planned, crappy coup attempt to overturn an election is still an attempt to overturn an election. Trump called election officials in both GA and AZ to try and persuade them to change the results. His lawyers filed 60 lawsuits to do the same. He incited a mob to get Pence to change the results. Bay of Pigs was a crappy coup attempt as was what ever happened in Jorden recently. Failing doesn't mean one didn't try.

Just as a thought, filing official lawsuits through the judiciary(especially ones you lose), is sort of the opposite of a coup.
 
Just as a thought, filing official lawsuits through the judiciary(especially ones you lose), is sort of the opposite of a coup.
That does ring true, but Trump has been trying a non traditional approach to retaining power. One in which he looks like he is being perfectly legal while doing lots of illegal stuff.
 
Good men do bad things, bad men do good. The good still is.
 
Whoever was tasked with planning for a military operation to remove Donald Trump from office.
The preparation and response to a potential coup attempt is not the measure of whether or not a coup is being attempted.

Donald Trump doesn't believe in coups. But if he did ...
CNN)Donald Trump wants to get something straight. He's not a big coup guy.

"Despite massive Voter Fraud and Irregularities during the 2020 Presidential Election Scam, that we are now seeing play out in very big and important States, I never threatened, or spoke about, to anyone, a coup of our Government," Trump said in response to reporting from a forthcoming book that alleges that Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mark Milley -- among other top generals -- was deeply concerned that the 45th President would lead a coup if he lost the 2020 election.
Which, well, OK. Trump is anti-coup! Except that his statement didn't end there.
Here's the next bit:

"So ridiculous! Sorry to inform you, but an Election is my form of 'coup,' and if I was going to do a coup, one of the last people I would want to do it with is General Mark Milley."

So Trump is saying that he's against coups but if he DID, uh, do a coup, he definitely wouldn't do one with Milley? That's not comforting at all!

With Trump, it's always difficult to grade his degradation of the office of president for a simple reason: He just did so many things that no other person who had served in the office prior would even think of, much less act on.

That panoply of transgressions makes it difficult to say things like "the most dangerous" or "the worst." There are just so many.
That said, noodling on who you would be comfortable doing a coup with -- is that a thing? -- is pretty, pretty high up the list of actually dangerous things Trump has said.
Especially when you consider that we, as a country, are just over six months removed from an armed insurrection at the US Capitol that left more than 100 police officers injured, five people dead and nearly 530 charged for their roles in the riot.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/politics/trump-coup-milley-election/index.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom