Generals

[Sultan Bhargash]

Here's an idea you will use.

CivIII's "Great Leaders" that form armies are going to mutate into "Generals" that remain with their armies and can impart bonuses to their armies a la the generals in Victoria/Hearts of Iron. Each civ will have it's unique generals with unique traits, for example, Alexander the Great will give the army he is travelling with the ability to ignore negative terrain modifiers (he being an expert crosser of rivers and deserts and mountains on the way to battle), while MacArthur might be able to amphibiously attack with his army, etc. There will also be lesser generals (including ones that can be "educated" out of academies the way armys are now made) with simpler bonuses, some can have more units in their army, some will get extra movement, etc. etc.

 

[Gengis Khan]

HOLY @#$@! An idea that I actually like!

That would be a great addition, however it would be pain to balance out. Does every Civ have the same bonuses with different Generals names, or are they geared towards what that General really accomplish(as you suggested).

If it's the latter, then which is worth more: +1 hp to each unit, Amphimbious attack, igoring terrain penalties, or an extra attack point or two? I think a ton of playtesting would be needed. And while each individual General doesn't need to balanced, "the sum of the parts" should be.. ie if a Civ has 2 Uber Generals, a couple lesser ones is fine VS the Civ that has 4 average Generals.

Not to mention anything to make armies more complicated would need the AI programmed to better use the changes, and GLs all together for that matter.

 

[the mormegil]

This is one of the best ideas I've heard. It would add a lot more depth to the game.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

I thought of it as something probably most useful in mods such as an Alexander the great mod, especially if there were a way to edit the abilities of generals and the conditions under which they appear. Otherwise, yes, there might be a way to standardize what a general does. Although I don't see differences as any more imbalancing than having UUs in different eras, etc.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Excelent idea.

 

[Tomoyo]

I like this idea. It adds a lot more to the difference between the civs.

How are we going to come up with 128 different leader uses though?

 

[socralynnek]

My idea is: You can give leaders special abilities, but this wouldn't apply to the epic game, because there it is hard to balance it, but an army has a small chance with every fight they win to get a special ability like amphibious, stealth, invisible, ignore terrain movement cost, defensive bombardment etc.
Maybe some of them would make them too strong, but your army would be something the opponents fear you for...

 

[the mormegil]

I like this idea. It adds a lot more to the difference between the civs.

How are we going to come up with 128 different leader uses though?

Why would you need 128 different leader uses?

 

[AdHHH]

I like this idea. It adds a lot more to the difference between the civs.

How are we going to come up with 128 different leader uses though?

Great idea! Is it possible to give armies different attributes in Civ3, if so this could be applied in the existing C3C/Civ epic.

What if the RNG was used to decide with different weights for different powers? Here's a list of powers there could be

Standard (Civ3) army 35%
C3C army (1 extra MP) 35%
1 extra HP army 5%
1 extra AP army 5%
1 extra DP army 5%
amphibious army 5%
ignores movement (on hills, mountains etc.) cost army 5%
all moves are roads army 5%

I accept the weights would have to be adjusted for certain Civs (9/3/3 Sipahi army would be far too strong, or worse, 5/2/1 Immortal army), but in general it would be unlikely to get a General/army with an extra AP. My maths is poor but Ive put some proposed %s there, what do you guys think? Like you say, playtesting for 128 leaders and Civ UUs etc. is a potential knightmare, and some people are calling out for so-called 'random events'. In this scenario, Persia (example) would have to be fighting in the Ancient Age (not unlikely), to a point where they have many elites (not that unlikely), so they may produce a leader (1/16 is it?), and from there would only have a 1/20 chance of getting an extra AP. On reflection, the road movement cost army would probably be more powerful in the Ancient Age because of a Blitzkrieg. Would armies auto-heal or would that have to be another army trait?

 

[King Alexander]

Shultan Bhargash: A unique idea!!

As you pointed out, it wouldn't make the game too unbalanced more than UU's already do. I, Alexander the Great (just joking!), must say that your idea should definetly be implemented in Civ4. Think only how much that would add to the game value: Generals/Kings with each one's expertise field! Tremendous!

 

[Emperor Kalson]

A new suggestion to this idea... Create Generals for Army/Air Force/Marine units and Admirals for Naval units.

Do away completely with a "Great Leader" building an Army Option and allow the General/Admiral to create an "Army HQ".

Here's the idea... a General Unit is created after Military Tradition is researched an the Civilization build the "Army Officer Training Center" Small Wonder (this would be available to all civilizations!) The General is created and obviously you want a permanent army defending your Capital so you use him to create the 1st Army HQ. Each Army/Naval HQ would be allowed to have 5 Divisions under its Command. For each Division you'd need another officer created and each Division could have only 8 Units in a grouping. So after you created the 1st Army HQ you build another Officer Unit and then create the 1st Army HQ 1st Division and start assigning units to the Division. Another feature that should be noted is that only like units should in a Division. You should be allowed to name each Division as well, so that you can more easily keep track of the various divisions.

This would allow you to create a 1st Army HQ 5th Division Engineers... i.e. its loaded with 7 worker units. Whereever you move the Leader, the units move!

The same principle would apply to Air Force and Marines as well as Naval. The only thing I might add to this is that each Division is only allowed to travel so far away from its HQ before the people become unruly as that Division is designed to protect them, with the exception of Engineering Divisions. The only time this would not apply, is when your nation is at war, then Divisions could be shipped abroad for the war effort!

Any suggestions?

 

[KaNick]

Nice of you to stop by Sultan, good idea.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Here's an idea you will use.

CivIII's "Great Leaders" that form armies are going to mutate into "Generals" that remain with their armies and can impart bonuses to their armies a la the generals in Victoria/Hearts of Iron. Each civ will have it's unique generals with unique traits, for example, Alexander the Great will give the army he is travelling with the ability to ignore negative terrain modifiers (he being an expert crosser of rivers and deserts and mountains on the way to battle), while MacArthur might be able to amphibiously attack with his army, etc. There will also be lesser generals (including ones that can be "educated" out of academies the way armys are now made) with simpler bonuses, some can have more units in their army, some will get extra movement, etc. etc.

Sounds good to me!

 

[Pounder]

Love the idea of additional abilities.

I originally posted this on a thread to do with medals being awarded, thought it was more applicable to generals.

Maybe promotions could be included as well as replacements for armies. After several medals.

First promotion: Unit could lead battalion (2 units).
Second promotion: Unit could lead regiment (3 units).
Third promotion: Unit could lead brigade (4 units).

I know that a brigade typically is the same as a regiment, I think it is when a colonel becomes a brigadier general his regiment becomes a brigade. Maybe someone could correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Number of units supported subject to debate.

 

[The_Tigers_Eye]

This is a great idea, why limit it to just generals though, having Air Marshals and Admirals adding bonuses to sea and air...

 

[Dominix]

Awesome idea! However, like Genghis Khan said, implementing special attributes without disrupting the balance may be a difficulty. Trying to assign one unique attribute per civ may not be feasible if we're trying to keep balance. Perhaps the special attributes should be limited to the different civ traits: Militaristic, Industrious, etc. In that case, every civ has two possible attributes to gain when they spawn a leader.

 

[Ballazic]

How about you can buy generals.

 

[Mojotronica]

Sultan,
It's a neat idea, a natural extension of the added complexity that UUs brought to the game. I think a short list of 4 to 12 special powers is all that would be needed, each applied to multiple generals.

 

[Cilpot]

I like it

 

[baseballfan45]

BRILLIANT
- I really like this idea, armies tend to not have so much of an advantage, this would change that