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Generic domination strategy for deity pangea?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Resonance, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. Resonance

    Resonance Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
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    60
    Hi all,
    after reading some military strategies for deity in this forum I began to wonder about the generic case. Is it possible to have a set of rules for decision making that yields a domination win in almost any game?

    Maybe you guys are interested as well and we can try to put some pieces together. But I should probably elaborate a bit on what I mean by the generic case. Basically I would like to develop a guideline which to follow no matter the civ you play, especially without focusing on a specific UU and without timing attacks that require unreasonable conditions.

    For example, stuff like Tabernak's 4 city swords rush is not a valid answer to the generic deity domination, as it requires access to 6 iron without warring, which is unreasonable in the following sense: You will have to set up for the rush without knowing if there is a 6 iron tile within your reach and your situation becomes dire if there is none (No writing before turn 50-60, no library before turn 60-70, only warriors for defense).

    Another example that is situational: The archer rush requires a civ close by that settled in mostly open terrain with accessible cities.

    I know how to beat deity domination if the situation is favorable and the game turns out to be in line with my pre-decided strategy, but if that is not the case, I end up re-rolling. Funnily, I feel more comfortable with science-oriented victories than with domination. I have a set of rules that comes close to my requirement in that case.

    So is there any expert warmonger who figured it out or is willing to try?

    A few things to start with:

    - scout, scout seems to be the mandatory thing to build in the beginning. If you want to beat the turn14 DoW, you need a fast archer. Archery is only beneficial if that rush is coming, so you need to see it is coming.

    - Liberty vs honor. I am undecided which tree is better initially. If it is possible to enter an early war successfully, honor becomes first pick in my opinion, but if yor real opportunity window lies in the medieval or renaissance era, it might be better to have another great person to make it happen faster.

    - I do no think Iron units should be neglected, but I think a more accurate assumption should be something like this: access to Iron is a consequence of your first successful war.

    - The stealth bomber rush to me seems like the most powerful approach so far. You set up the same machine as you would for a space race, and begin conquering in modern age. Even though you need oil/ aluminium, this is powerful because by focusing on defensive science, one can outrun the AI tech-wise around the industrial age. This means that even before the bombers hit, you can have a successful war going against a weak AI simply by out-teching it. thus, access to some resources becomes a reasonable assumption.


    Maybe it is to ambitious to ask for, but I think it is at least interesting to determine if it really is.

    What am I aiming for? A general guideline from which you can deviate if there is a specific circumstance that generates an opportunity window (extreme example: El Dorado), but that yields a good course of action if that special incident does not occur. So my suggestion for the initial turns would be this:

    Turn 1-15:

    Initial build: scout, scout, monument
    Initial policy tree: Honor


    If scouts find AI close or warmonger AIs settling toward me within the first 15 turns -> opportunity for a defensive archer war! Tech archery as tech #2 or #3 and begin warring after DoW. archer counter offensive will work until ~turn 45

    initial tech: (mining if lux)->pottery -> writing

    Is this start a mistake in the sense that you could do better without knowledge of the map?


    Pieces of the puzzle later on:
    - Settling towards AIs will trigger wars against you. Use this to avoid having to declare. This way you can still trade with the other AIs on reasonable terms.
    - AI fails at ranged combat. -> archers are one of the best early units, crossbows stay effective until at least industrial age.
    - deity AI average military tech pace: Swords t45 - Longswords t80 - rifles t120 - artillery t170 - nukes t230
     
  2. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    The 4 cities sword rush is viable in most cases. After Iron working, if no iron, you are still in good shape to build libraries and NC while defending with extra archers until pikes. The odds are pretty high to get enough iron. You can buy from other civs(for 45 :c5gold: piece) or get some from cs pretty easily, at least for defence until you decide to rush for Steel or Machinery.

    There is no perfect strategies, sometimes you are pretty isolated or you are simply sandwiched between 3 warmongers sending waves of warriors and archers before turn 30.

    You should search for more general strategies depending of what is around you(for example, lot of deserts and hills around or close to toundra---> good chances to get iron).
     
  3. EEE_BOY

    EEE_BOY Deity

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    NZ
    I think ignoring UU is not the optimal way to play deity game. The type of UU will dictate the general strategy with the information from early scout. For example, monty and Kammy should build more warrior for upgrade and best use Honor tree for sword rush. Japan, Demark on the other hand should adopt liberty to grab iron on the second city and use GS from the finisher to get Steel. Many civs having gunpowerder UU should also try liberty to establish med size empire for the production, use GS finisher to get education and use the GE from HS to get PT, after setting up the empire like this, use GS generated from running two scientists in one or two cities plus RA to ensure the important military techs are grabbed faster than other civs and press attacks.
     
  4. Wargizmo

    Wargizmo Warlord

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    Australia
    I think the free settler from liberty is by far the best opening for any strategy other than rushing off 1 city. Ive had a lot of success recently on immortal going 2 policies into liberty and then strait into honor. You can set up 4 cities really fast and by the time you get iron and attack your first guy you have the great general, the experience bonus and usually pick up the 10% flanking bonus during the war; then after you've finished you can grab the policy which gives you happiness and culture for garrisonned cities which will allow you to keep more puppets.
     
  5. KM

    KM Warlord

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    Oct 11, 2010
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    Biggest Fail.

    you aim for high tech and long game with stealth bombers and you start with honor????

    Even when doing a swordrush u start with liberty. Like Tabernak pointed out. Liberty --> free settler is the most efficient start no matter where you go afterwards.

    1. Monument , scout is superior to the other way around. (Get the free settler as fast as possible)

    There is no win in all situations strategy. I do only have MP knowledge. But you can think of that as a general no trade, no diplo with AI abuse, allways war knowledge.

    Scout early. Scout with the worrior aswell. Depending on map type, where the others are located etc decide for a strategy. Then adapt it during the game to fit what is actually happening around you. I guess there is need for less adaptation in SP games since you got the AI against u and not a human but still...
     
  6. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

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    Plus that policy that gives a free settler also lets you build more of them in the capital faster. The one with the free worker also makes your workers improve tiles faster. So while you're cranking out warriors and archers, those two policies let ya get to the iron and luxuries and get them improved faster. Sure the new cities can be placed on top of one iron deposit or luxury to make them instantly available, but you can't do that with all of them, so every turn saved in the improvements counts.
     
  7. lilnev

    lilnev King

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    Maybe I'm just bad at sword-rushes, but I've found waiting for longswords to be more consistent. Iron can almost always be secured by one means or another by that time, whereas CS's won't have it improved and AI's won't be willing to sell earlier. I can usually work enough barbarians for a GG (preserve the archers and triremes! those guys are worth 2 XP per turn). And I have siege (usually start with cats and upgrade after the first or second city is captured).

    Scout first, always, and often second (though I play on large fractal maps -- the amount of free space is often substantial but definitely variable). A granary is probably my most common third build, particularly if I have the resources, I've popped culture from a hut, and/or I think I can worker-steal.

    Honor is fun, but Liberty is just better. Trad only if I have a Legalism UB, possibly. I usually like the free worker before the settler -- though again, on large maps I don't feel a rush to claim city sites. In general the very early game is about scouting, growing, and getting luxuries improved. Then Writing vs. Iron Working is a crucial decision.

    The Liberty GS often provides Steel if I've bought a cultural CS.
     

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