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genetics in Beyond Earth

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. Lord Shadow

    Lord Shadow General

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    Civ5 was developed with the same "optimistic" tone in mind, if I remember correctly, and it still got nuclear weapons.

    Suitcase nukes were confirmed, so most likely we'll see strategic missiles as well.
     
  2. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

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    Realistically, the factions would all start the game with various weapons of mass destruction, and limited conventional warfare between major powers would be next to impossible (as it is today). That doesn't sound like very much fun to me, so there are going to be cases in which gameplay value has to trump realism.
     
  3. tecumseh23

    tecumseh23 Chieftain

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    There is something about designing diseases that is much darker than bombs and missiles, no matter how big those bombs and missiles are.

    That said, I would love it if they added bio weapons. ;)
     
  4. Cyon

    Cyon Cosmonaut

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    Also biological weapons are banned by a international treaty today so no nations are spuposed to have them, nukes are only banned for those how don't have them yet. The non profiliation treaty is a civ 5 world Congress resolution by the way.
     
  5. Fabio1701

    Fabio1701 King

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    one could interpret the use of alien life forms in attack and creating miasma as a form of bio warfare.

    But, international treaties be damned. Why would this be the limiting factor in CBE when it real life it is obvious that rogue nations (and some not rogue nations) have them? Torture is also banned but still happens.
     
  6. Kakhovsky

    Kakhovsky Chieftain

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    Sadness and mourning. Harmony obviously needs some kind of supervirus exterminating all life non-alinged with the planet. As a choice for a darker more militaristic harmony.
     
  7. winddysphere

    winddysphere Warlord

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    Maybe it should be something like...
    -A biological weapon that apply a special field that summon a "cookie eater" bug that will obviously eats cookie. (result: summon a swarm of aliens at target city due to "cookie", a targeted player must clean that field by his/herself.)
    -A biological weapon that when apply on field will force soldiers or anyone in that area to flee or otherwise will suffer 1 hit down. (not to be confuse with miasma)
    -A biological weapon that will completely shutdown targeted city. Because the viruses that come from that biological weapon cause people to be happy when look at how funny the viruses make fantasy pattern on building (also cause them to refuse working).
    -A biological nuclear missile that force targeted city to build only non-robotic units (cause no damage to building and citizen).

    Etc. You know it's funny and humorous but I bet Civ BE must have at least 12 years plus. I wish it could be 16+ so they can input something nice ,better or OMG weapons in it. :(
     
  8. HorseshoeHermit

    HorseshoeHermit 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    Oh, "poisons" are women's weapons aren't they?

    No, I'm taking a hard line on this. Weapons is weapons. Killings is killing.
     
  9. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

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    This. The issue with biological and chemical weapons is: you need to make them interesting and a choice. If they are plain better, you will always use them. If they are worse, there's no reason to be tempted. If they can backfire (like a bio-weapon spreading to your people), they're frustrating and random.

    Come up with a way to make bio-weapons tempting and different, yet not overpowered, yet having definite consequences and we can talk about having them.

    Auto-DoW from everybody only work so much (especially if you're already playing to conquer the WORLD), happiness penalties are usually plastered over or crippling (really hard to find a middle ground). Better ideas, anybody?
     
  10. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    "Realistically" I'd say
    Bioweapon=spy activity
    Nuke/bomb='normal' attack

    Essentially different methods of delivery...(and different techs/defenses)
     
  11. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

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    I think that looking at it as purely a moral issue is missing the point. Poison gas and biological weapons and car bombs and suicide bombers are not usually modeled in strategy games for the same reason they are classified as terror weapons: because they're not useful weapon systems for anyone except a terrorist. I think that's what the developers mean when they talk about the tone of the game.

    Beyond Earth is science fiction, and so you could make up a science fiction reason why your biological weapon can be effective yet limited... but why would you want to? It's a PR minefield that's just not worth wading into.
     
  12. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Poison gas and bioweapons Are useful in the same way nukes are useful, as WMDs.
    A way to kill a lot of people indiscriminately.
    Bioweapons Could be easily incredibly useful if sufficiently advanced (small sample kills all individuals on the planet without the cure/vaccine (OP)...ie a Doomsday device that one side is protected from.)

    However, because of the overlap with nukes for non-OP bioweapons, they really could only be differentiated by delivery system, defense, and techs (bio-replicates from small amount best delivered at close range... Spy delivers..anti-spy/health defends.. Nuke-missile delivers..anti-missile/shelter defends)
     
  13. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

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    Maybe BIO weapon could work in a way that it would not kill population in a city instantly, but rather 1 pop a turn with that city being quarantined. Inflicted faction would need to temporarily switch to vaccine research to stop it. The more advanced (and more science output) the faction the faster vaccine research.

    + More discreet, possible to avoid getting caught with very advanced spy network (compared to outright WMD attack).
    + Stagger rival faction's progress (forced to research vaccine).
    + Inflicted city cannot produce.

    - / + Small chance of spreading beyond quarantined city. The target, other factions or you.

    - Possibly much lower damage compared to WMD if rival faction is too advanced (fast vaccine research).
    - Diplomatic consequences if caught (+ justified retaliation by the target).
    - Severe diplo consequences if spread to other factions and caught (retaliation by world? Inflicted factions?)

    Obvious countermeasures are:

    Good spy network - no neglecting your espionage.
    Some buildings that increase vaccine research time / slows down pop decrease - just like there are building that decrease damage from WMD.

    Risk and reward:

    The easiest targets are those with less developed spy network if you want to succeed and not get caught. On top of that you may do much more damage to less advanced and prepared factions (low vaccine research, lack of needed buildings etc.), which is rewarding, but at the same time there is a higher risk of spreading because of the same factors, which might backfire = risk.
     
  14. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

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    Yeah, but at that point, it is just a regular weapon with a gruesome name and that's what I'm getting at: if you want to include it, you need a compelling gameplay reason that fits with its theme.

    So far, I haven't seen many good gameplay mechanics modelling them yet without making them extremely random (backfire) or frustrating (spying means if you're at the business end, they come out of nowhere).
     
  15. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well they say that spies currently can plant nukes and thumpers. Which means a weapon that is just as bad/unpredictable as a bioweapon (except for a city-city spreading bioweapon)

    Essentially, I think it would be better if the changed the name from "plant nuke" to "bioweapon" and then have different techs involved in protecting against it/making it more dangerous.

    [I do think city-city spread would Probably be OP]
     
  16. GGreenie

    GGreenie Chieftain

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    Great find, I really enjoyed reading that, thank you. I know what affinity I'll play 'supremacy ' all the way :)
     
  17. GeoModder

    GeoModder Deity

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    I reckon a 'bio weapon' in the classical sense can't be included as is since Supremacy factions are at least for a large part not biological in nature anymore. A more generic label like 'Viral weapon' would be in order. It could depict a software or biological attack at the same time.
     
  18. PolitenessMan

    PolitenessMan Chieftain

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    Or maybe Biological weapon = worm bait.

    Why wastes tons of ordnance pounding an enemy base to rubble when you can toss some worm chow and let the local fauna swallow it up?
     
  19. Karl0413

    Karl0413 Prince

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    Hey, Alpha Centauri had chemical weapons, the other factions would get pissed if you used nerve gas on other humans but looked the other way if you used them on the two alien factions, and implied biological weapons with techs like Retro-Viral Engineering. And we already got a quasi-chemical weapon in the form of Miasma in this game, so why can't we have our bio-weapons?
     
  20. SupremacyKing

    SupremacyKing Prince

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    In the new AngryJoe interview, Firaxis seemed to confirmed that ICBM nukes will NOT be in the game. He says that the covert ops where you get a siege worm to attack a city will be CivBE's version of Civ5 nukes. So, it seems that Firaxis is taking the "optimistic tone" all the way and nixing all traditional WMDs.
     

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