Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by tomsnowman123, Jan 29, 2007.
No, Israel used over a million bombs in a war of aggression with disregard for human life.
A million bombs that over 6 years killed, what, a thousand people or so? If there was disregard for human life, there wouldn't have been a single Palestinian alive today. Again, people are not even willing to look at the simple facts before throwing bombastic statements.
Eli, what is your point? Do you think you would have been actually allowed to kill every palestinian?
Im sure that not even the most extreme, blind, religious etc pro-israeli people would not be in favour of that.
So it is not like you did a good job for killing/destroying less, since already there is a massive scale of damage having been done.
Imagine your own city being bombed ala Lebanon. The effect would have been quite horrible. Moreover imagine it being bombed because you could not stop some jewish sect running around. Not much fun. I bet you would not just think "oh well, it does not matter that X bombed us, we will just try to solve the problem of that domestic group now. Thank you X"
First, it's not genocide. They are not attempting to kill every single Palestinian. Which is obvious to any unbiased author.
I'll try to give a short history lesson on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
The Jews migrated to their ancestral homeland. They bought up all the land they could find and formed large, organized communities. After World War Two the British decided to leave the region and give nations to various groups. In Palestine, they gave Jordan and the current disputed territories to the Palestinians and gave Israel to the Jews. Most of the land the Jews were given as a national homeland was already theirs. The Jews, although disappointed at receiving a nation the size of Connecticut or Delaware. The Palestinians (the West Bank/Gaza Strip ones. Hereafter they'll be called Palestinians while the Palestinians in Jordan will be Jordanians) refused the land given them and declared war against the Israelis and were joined in by the other Arabs. After Israel defeated the Arabs, the Arabs divided up the Palestinian areas. Several more wars were fought in Israel's defence or safety. After one war (1967?) the Israelis captured the Sinai and the Palestinian areas. they gave away the large, resource rich Sinai for peace.
Fast-forward to modern times.
The Palestinians, utterly defeated in numerous wars, demand a nation. They were offered 98% of the land they wanted- pretty good for a nation that has lost its last 5 wars. They refused it. They also refused the original Partition. Israel has at various times retreated from the territories. Always the Palestinians attack them again or engage in civil infighting. What is Israel to do? Israel has offered generous peace terms. Israel has unilaterally withdrawn from Palestine. Israel has received suicide bombers and silence in return. What have the Palestinians, the ones who have lost numerous aggressive genocidal wars against the Jews, done for peace?
BTW- Good rhetoric? In school we're starting to do this so I figure that now is a good place to do it.
BTW2- Jordan is a Palestinian state (70-80%). So how come no one mentions it? The Palestinians have a state. Granted, Jordan didn't want them and so massacred thousands of them in order to make them flee. And we point fingers at Israel...
I'm not arguing specifically for any side here, I've done it so many times that I don't give a **** anymore.
What does annoy me in this thread, is the blatant distortion of facts. I'm not going to argue whether Israel did this or that right or wrong, I have my opinion, I've defended it more times than I can count, I'm tired of it. But come on, genocide? 4,000 dead after 6 years of warfare, with modern weaponry, is that genocide? Is that Rwanda? Is that the Holocaust? Is Barak, S
If I were on Tom's side, I would've hoped for this thread to sink to second page as fast as possible because it's a humiliation. I want my side to be seen as trying to convince through reasoned discussion, not by throwing hysterical hyperboles.
The same goes for "disregard to human life". Of course there is some disregard, such is the nature of war. But if you compare this conflict with almost any other historical or modern one, it's one of the cleanest if not the most clean.
What he said.
Calling it genocide seems to be way ott though.
Palestinians are commiting genocide against themselves.
I also fail to see how it is genocide. I've noticed that this term is being too loosely thrown around nowadays. It seems that people are slapping genocide everything lately.
Oh, that guy died from West Nile Virus. We should prosecute the mosquitoes, they're committing genocide on the human race with that disease. That lady died from a car accident, we should charge the auto makers with genocide. That man died from a heart attack, lets charge cholesterol with genocide, it is killing a lot of people.
I would think it very comparable to the situation in Kossovo, where there was a military campaign against an armed militia (the so-called Kossovo Liberation Army, or KLA).
However in that case there was a bombing campaign against Serbia, whereas in the case of Israel there is little more than nothing at all.
And the situation in Kossovo had been called genocide, in a much larger exageration, given that the albanian population was not living in so impoverished conditions as the ones palestinians are living in. Of course in both cases things were nowhere near ideal, but you can easily spot the double standard.
Gaza is not fully surrounded by Israel. There is a border with the Egyptians. Case in point: the Egyptians don't want to help their "muslim brothers" either. The rest of the muslim world couldn't care less about the palastinians if it weren't for their symbol of "western opression" The entire Palastinian population could be right now active productive citizens of various arab nations (besides Jordan, the only muslim nation to allow palastinians to become citizens. Those born before 1967 that is).
Yes this would create a theortetical new modern diaspora of Palastinians instead of Jews (where Jews had been active productive citizens of various Christian and Muslim nations), but this alternative is far greater than the current "refugee camps"(in actuality towns and villages with permanent housing and municipal services) and constant warfare.
The Muslim World is as much to blame as the Israelis. Where the Israelis "kicked them out" (many left on the wishes of the Arab countries which invaded Israel to limit civilian casualties) their fellow Muslims refused to take them in.
Perhaps a bad analogy but:
Say a man is evicted from his home, why should it be allowed for the family of the man to not take him in while he is forced to sit in his old house's yard with him and the new house's occupant throwing stones at one another. It might not be as bad if the man was 'cast out' of the family sort of speak, but when the family is actively stating their support of the man and sending the occasional stone for him to throw how can they not be held accountable as well?
The only arab genocide is the one arabs are actively exacuting in the Sudan.
What about their continuous genocide attempts against Jewish people?
Far from genocide. They are trying but failing miserable. Not to diminish any lost of life but what they do to the jews is nothing like the terror, mass rape, mass killing and total and compleat razing of towns and camps. The Jews can atleast fight back.
They were pretty close in 1948...
Arabs have never committed genocide against Israel and such a contention is absurd.
And 1973 as well...
We're not saying that they did. We are saying that the Arabs constantly threatened genocide and to all appearances were not bluffing. The Arab leaders themselves openly proclaimed that they were going to exterminate the Jews and they almost had the opportunity in 1948 and 1973. And today it is not uncommon to hear them repeating genocidal threats.
They would have if they had won any of the wars they launched. That was their goal.
Not from any lack of effort on many Arab's part.
You people seriously believe that Arabic governments would have exterminated all Jews had they succeeded in defeating Israel?
Wow. Just, just wow.
Separate names with a comma.