[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Commodore]

I read an AMA with a Black Lives Matter spokesperson today and was super disappointed. She did not answer A SINGLE question about where the donated money goes. Did not say what the organization is actually doing. Did not say HOW to "defund the police". Only replied to super save questions. I wouldn't donate to BLM if I was swimming in money, honestly. I'd much rather give to a transparent organization.

All of that might just be a result of simply not knowing exactly how to go about achieving their goals. Which seems to be a common trait among modern social movements. They all seem to know what they want, they just don't know how to go about getting it.

 

[Estebonrober]

I didn't mean it literally Gorbles, I just meant that Bush is not someone you would want to use as an endorsement, I've posted my thoughts before on his governance.



This article is a lot better at supporting your claim than the first article you posted, but I still wonder on other variables/factors:

What areas were the houses being purchased in, high risk areas? Low risk areas? Crime risk areas? Close to good schools/bad schools, can we compare this to the white people borrowing?

Did the customers in question negotiate the loan terms in their favor or were they more agreeable? Or did the bank just tell them take it or leave it?

Was there a guarantor on the respective black vs. white loan applicantions? Did class play a factor in this regard?

Was age a factor?

In the first article you posted (https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-modern-day-redlining-20180215-story.html) if the more recent credit score information was available (the article claimed it was not publicly available) then it would have been a more useful article for recent data, I'm not blaming the authors of that article for not citing credit score data, they couldn't get access to it as lenders will not make it public citing privacy concerns, they could be covering up what you are claiming here.



I don't know much on CNBC's "political or economical alignment" but it seems CNBC agrees with you though (at least on the home loan discrepancy): https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/01/man...-credit-due-to-decades-of-discrimination.html

There is a long history of housing discrimination in the US and it very much continues to this day. From denying loans to POC to using FHA financing to actually promote gentrification instead of helping poorer communities. The scale is wide in the abuse. I've got stories of Florida using community reinvestment loans to promote gated neighborhoods in Miami. Stadiums getting loans for promised projects that never happen after companies get the money (here in St. Louis for example). It goes on and on.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/25/trump-discrimination-rules-obama-104035

 

[Bamspeedy]

I read an AMA with a Black Lives Matter spokesperson today and was super disappointed. She did not answer A SINGLE question about where the donated money goes. Did not say what the organization is actually doing. Did not say HOW to "defund the police". Only replied to super save questions. I wouldn't donate to BLM if I was swimming in money, honestly. I'd much rather give to a transparent organization.

Most leaders of local chapters probably weren't expecting to do much more than assigning tasks to others to make signs, phone calls, etc. Some are flustered or caught off guard when interviewed.

Dont know if still true, but couple years ago largest BLM website was run by a white man in Australia with no connection to the actual organization.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/4/10/17219676/facebook-black-lives-matter-page-fake

Then those pesky Russians....hey look, it was Minneapolis back then too (a suburb though).

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/us/russian-trolls-exploit-philando-castiles-death/index.html

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Completely anecdotal, but there's a lot of social media chatter (particularly around activists, in particular BLM and BLM-adjacent activists) that individuals are co-opting the current protests (and optics) all of a sudden. Multiple reports in different areas - in one case the guy who claimed to be a spokesperson was an Instagram . . .mer? Instagrammer? One of those types of influencer that wasn't even part of the protests.

I'm not saying that therefore this AMA was in the same kind of vein, and I will dig out information if you want to know more (because even if proof of what I'm saying, it's not necessarily anything to do with the AMA still).

Black Lives Matter is a movement, instead of an organisation. Insofar as it has an organisation; it's decentralised. I'd be wary of anyone claiming to speak on behalf of the movement. Maybe they just represented their local chapter, I dunno.

Idk man, the BLM website states clearly that "it's just a movement", but the fact that they have their own shop, which is likely making Massive bank right now, and this statement:

Profits go to Black Lives Matter chapters, the Global organization and are reinvested in the business as follows:

• Standard distribution to BLM Chapters – will sit in a fund set up for chapter support, grants, etc.
• To help support the sustainability of the national and governing organization.
• Reinvest to grow the business.
• Artists and Designers may receive a percentage of profits.

Have got me really questioning what ends up happening with the money. I haven't seen a single concrete statement about where that money goes, but it almost seems like "poor/underpriviledged black folks" is not the answer. Especially "Reinvest to grow the business" and "distribution to BLM Chapters" (sounds like a salary) seems kind of iffy.

All of that might just be a result of simply not knowing exactly how to go about achieving their goals. Which seems to be a common trait among modern social movements. They all seem to know what they want, they just don't know how to go about getting it.

Sure, this is true. It is also true that there will be a lot of discord in any group about how to actually use the money. The thing is just that there is already a lot of money flowing into BLM, and there are definitely real people who are taking that money and redistributing it, and absolutely nothing tells me that the money is used for anything beneficial.

For example, back when we founded our NGO, we had to disclose absolutely exactly what every penny we "earned" could be used for, and we had to have a notary confirm it, then multiple government organs, and then finally could we even found our NGO. I hope it's similiar in the US. If we want to change this "purpose" today we still have to go through the notary, the government organs, et cetera, and we have to prove this was a majority decision and in accordance with all the rules that come with that.

What I am trying to say is that any movement, organization, etc. will usually have to specify concretely at least one project they are working on before that movement is officially sanctioned. Even BLM will likely have a charta, with some things written in them. The fact that we've never seen this charta is a little ominous.

I personally think every NGO or Movement should have a statement of purpose (and the purpose is usually where the money has to be directed) irregardless of whether it is officially recognized or not, because people have a strong interest as to where their money is going, and they want to be reassured.

Another example: We were legally unable to donate some of the money we made to another NGO (who even had similair goals), because it was not explicitly stated in our statement of purpose. Anything you want to spend money on that is not in there will have to be extraordinarily justified, meaning people have transparency over where the money really goes, as long as the SOP is formulated understandably.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Idk man, the BLM website states clearly that "it's just a movement", but the fact that they have their own shop, which is likely making Massive bank right now, and this statement:

Profits go to Black Lives Matter chapters, the Global organization and are reinvested in the business as follows:

• Standard distribution to BLM Chapters – will sit in a fund set up for chapter support, grants, etc.
• To help support the sustainability of the national and governing organization.
• Reinvest to grow the business.
• Artists and Designers may receive a percentage of profits.

Have got me really questioning what ends up happening with the money. I haven't seen a single concrete statement about where that money goes, but it almost seems like "poor/underpriviledged black folks" is not the answer. Especially "Reinvest to grow the business" and "distribution to BLM Chapters" (sounds like a salary) seems kind of iffy.

Its BLM Chapters who will carry out the campaigning so that seems legit. The real question is how much goes to the 2nd and 3rd items on the list. Same with any charity or campaign group.
I suspect that if BLM had a bad record on this it would've came out. Theres plenty in the media who are unsympathetic to them.

 

[Gori the Grey]

How many elderly black women were killed by cops?

So . . . if you have to wait until you're elderly until you are not harassed by police, then you are from a relatively less-privileged race.

 

[H4run]

Its BLM Chapters who will carry out the campaigning so that seems legit. The real question is how much goes to the 2nd and 3rd items on the list. Same with any charity or campaign group.
I suspect that if BLM had a bad record on this it would've came out. Theres plenty in the media who are unsympathetic to them.

I think it's not about the credibility of those who runs it that is in question, but the clarity of the program that they put in front. Donors deserve to know the detail plan of their investment. Lacking in detail, even a credible organization could be corrupted, because it would be hard to control and the opportunity for corruption would be high.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I think it's not about the credibility of those who runs it that is in question, but the clarity of the program that they put in front. Donors deserve to know the detail plan of their investment. Lacking in detail, even a credible organization could be corrupted, because it would be hard to control and the opportunity for corruption would be high.

There is certainly a case for stricter regulation of campaigning/lobbying groups in the US but who is going to be helped by making the focus of that BLM? Not black people.
There has been a lot of criticism of BLM since it was founded but even its opponents haven't accused it of being a scam or its organisers of siphoning off funds for their own benefit AFAIK.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

I have never gone to a demonstration. Were I back in the US, I would want to go to one of these just to say I did.

 

[Gorbles]

Idk man, the BLM website states clearly that "it's just a movement", but the fact that they have their own shop, which is likely making Massive bank right now, and this statement:

Profits go to Black Lives Matter chapters, the Global organization and are reinvested in the business as follows:

• Standard distribution to BLM Chapters – will sit in a fund set up for chapter support, grants, etc.
• To help support the sustainability of the national and governing organization.
• Reinvest to grow the business.
• Artists and Designers may receive a percentage of profits.

Have got me really questioning what ends up happening with the money. I haven't seen a single concrete statement about where that money goes, but it almost seems like "poor/underpriviledged black folks" is not the answer. Especially "Reinvest to grow the business" and "distribution to BLM Chapters" (sounds like a salary) seems kind of iffy.

Did a bit of digging, found this: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/ms_blm_homepage_2019 (linked from the official BLM website). It looks like they have a registered charity with instructions on how to obtain information about the donations made. I hope this helps.

I understand your caution - especially given the ease of grift when it comes to a massive surge in popularity for any initiative or movement like this - but I would be wary of assuming that because funds do go to local chapters and the like that they're therefore being misappropriated. A lot of local groups (even hobbyist ones) survive off of donations, it wouldn't be strange to help cover logistical costs (or even legal costs, for example for wrongful arrests, court fees, etc. in that specific community) in this manner.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Thank you a lot for digging that up. It seems that ActBlue charity is merely a service provider, they are essentially a kickstarter for NGOs it seems, and manage donations so that the organization/movement in question does not have to. So ActBlue does not seem to be their registered charity, (which would be in accordance with them being a movement, not an NGO or charity). Still, it seems the mission statement/details can only be klicked on after donating? (referring to 3: Details) There is also no talk of how the money is used, besides: "We appreciate your support of the movement and our ongoing fight to end state-sanctioned violence, liberate Black people, and end white supremacy forever." Which really is as vague as you could possibly formulate a goal. I will be looking into it myself.

more info:

companies that have promised to donate: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/co...se-corporate-donations-blm-are-going-n1225371

some comments on reddit about where the money goes (not reliable sources):

Since people are being ***** I’ll actually answer this question. Some of it goes towards George Floyd’s family to help with his funeral and other things in their time of mourning. There’s one for a memorial for him as well. Some goes to bail funds for arrested protesters, food, water, milk, and other medical supplies for victims of tear gas, mace, rubber bullets or other protest related injuries. I’ve seem one organization that splits its funds to 37 different organizations including bail. And I’m pretty sure there’s a couple that are to pay for medical treatment/surgeries for protesters (or in some cases, random citizens not part of the protest.)

This is a newspaper owned by cult (unification church) spreading a myth about how BLM is a Soros-operated left-wing organisation used for inciting racist hatred and dividing the people (a conspiracy I have heard a lot recently): https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/

Apparently a decent chunk of money goes to the "black futures" which helps fund (afro-futurist) artists and conversations about the future of black people in America (something I think is worth funding personally): https://blacklivesmatter.com/black-futures-month/

BLM DC is very open about what the money actually goes towards, here is something from thei website, a bit dated:

Why We Need Your Support
As our ecosystem grows our financial support system must grow as well.
We need funds to continue our radically accessible commitment to providing healthy food from Black owned businesses, paid childcare at every event and having ASL interpreters at our monthly gatherings. On average, our monthly open houses attract 300+ people and costs us $1,000.

Secondly, we need resources to make sure we have the emotional and spiritual capacity to show up and move forward in the movement as our highest selves. Supporting the work of our healers including renting space weekly for Black people to process racial stress through group discussion, dance, and visual art and affirming our humanity & love for each other by starting our week with joy via #BlackJoySunday (all while creating accessibility by offering free childcare) is essential in sustaining our well-being and activism. Our weekly healing spaces cost on average $3,150/month.

Lastly and most importantly, we need funds to support the emerging leadership of our ecosystem move through the world. As Black people in a city facing the ravages of displacement and economic disinvestment, it’s difficult to do the work of liberating your community while figuring out how to pay rent and feed yourself. We need your help to ensure that lack of gas money or health insurance doesn’t stop the work from moving forward. Supporting our emerging leadership, including our rapid response, organized resistance, healing and logistics teams, reimbursements and stipends costs on average $2,700/month.

Freedom House
A large part of our work including meetings occur at the home of one of our Core Organizers. Their home is known throughout the community as the Freedom House. There is an average of 2 meetings held at the Freedom House per week. In addition to providing temporary or emergency housing for our own organizers, organizers from all over the country stay here when in town. As a result all of the costs of maintaining the home are much higher for everything from utilities and food to printer ink and paper. Currently, these things are paid for by core organizers in addition to paying the rent in one of the nation’s most unaffordable housing markets.

The Future of BLM DC
We’re building a self-managed network of transformative pods. A transformative pod is where people come together to transform the current context in which they live. Black Lives Matter: DC is one such Pod that we’ve built. Within pods, we practice mutual aid and encumbrance; learning to support each other and becoming stronger together. We desire to create and sustain autonomous communities where we can provide the things the state can’t or won’t.

The costs of maintaining the physical & emotional space needed to foster this work are high.
We believe in the principle of Ubuntu, that the individual is inseparable from the community, that we’re all an individualization of a communal experience. We seek to abolish hierarchies of authority and power over each other within our community so we can all be fully powerful together. This means building and acting according to shared values and having processes for accountability & reconciliation if/when folks act outside of those values.
We believe relationships built on mutual aid and shared values are essential for community self-determination.

We believe that such a network could build a world capable of holding multiple worlds.
With your support, we can build the ecosystem capable of bringing about liberation!

Help Fund the Work Today!

Article by the daily beast about King and embezzlement: https://www.thedailybeast.com/goldi...he-money-shaun-king-raised-for-black-lives-go

 

[Bamspeedy]

There needs to be a third party that can verify organizations and fundraisers are who they say they are and the funds will go towards what they say they will..but who will scrutinize the third party to make sure they are doing their job?
There was at least one fake fundraiser to go to Michael Brown's family, that only lined the pockets of the scammer. Thankfully, at least one was caught.

I thought a celebrity was paying for Floyd's funeral, anyone seeking funds to support his funeral is either outdated/slow to update (at best), or questionable, or a scam (at worst).

 

[Gorbles]

Unrelatedly, and incidentally a point in favour of "reform won't work" (at least not for all departments):

Florida police organization offers to hire cops who were fired or resigned over police misconduct (CNN).

 

[Socrates99]

Unrelatedly, and incidentally a point in favour of "reform won't work" (at least not for all departments):

Florida police organization offers to hire cops who were fired or resigned over police misconduct (CNN).

Oh ffs... stuff like this is where that few bad apples garbage just falls apart.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

All of that might just be a result of simply not knowing exactly how to go about achieving their goals. Which seems to be a common trait among modern social movements. They all seem to know what they want, they just don't know how to go about getting it.

That's pretty much the norm for all social movements ever. They know roughly what they want and that they want it right now and don't know or care if that's even possible, let alone how. And than you either get a charismatic manipulator who takes over and drives them forward to a glorious future under his enlightened rule or you don't and they achieve nothing. Which given the alternative is often the least bad of the two.

Social movements are like herd of sheep. Only good for sheering.

 

[Gorbles]

That's pretty much the norm for all social movements ever. They know roughly what they want and that they want it right now and don't know or care if that's even possible, let alone how. And than you either get a charismatic manipulator who takes over and drives them forward to a glorious future under his enlightened rule or you don't and they achieve nothing. Which given the alternative is often the least bad of the two.

Social movements are like herd of sheep. Only good for sheering.

This is a really yikes take on the civil right's movement, you know.

 

[Anysense]

That's actually an improvement from the status quo even tho' it doesn't sound like it. Private corporations won't have qualified immunity.

I'm not sure it is a good idea - how do you know they are more trustworthy than the goverment? US politics is already driven by lobby groups, while ordinary people are only allowed to choose between two candidates already approved by elite. That looks very much like good old USSR but with two communist parties. I'm afraid giving the police and thus direct control over population to corporations would be another huge step towards totalitarian regime.

Its only been fouled by people who don't understand it.

How the term has become offensive is another strory. You expect a civilized concersation? Don't use offensive words. Speaking about white privilege to white people is about as rude as calling a black person in US a ******. There is nothing wrong with the word itself in general but due to historical circumstances it is deemed offensive in US.

Edit: Oh, it is deemed so offensive that it is *ed automatically, but you must know what I meant.

Like intersectionality for example. You want to argue about policies to try and help intersectional discrimination? We have room to debate.

I don't know what intersectionality is and I have no idea what you insinuate here.

You want to tell me that a black female has all the same opportunities as a white male then I'm telling you you need to read more.

No. This conversation is not going well because you are trying to challenge my personality rather than my opinion. And since you know nothing about the former and do not know what to attack you keep making baseless insinuations and they keep landing very far off the target; probably because you are guided by American stereotypes, which is a poor guide to people other than Americans.

The only thing I'm trying to tell you is that it is rude to use offensive words. Should I know that it would be so difficult I would not bother.

Moderator Action: The use of censored words is heavily discouraged at CFC, particularly when drawing false equivalences merely to troll others. ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[cardgame]

Don't use offensive words. Speaking about white privilege to white people is about as rude as calling a black person in US a ******.

The best display of white privilege there ever was.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

No. This conversation is not going well because you are trying to challenge my personality rather than my opinion. And since you know nothing about the former...

Are you suggesting that you are intentionally disguising your personality as you post? Because it seems you've made enough posts to have revealed quite a bit otherwise.

 

[Sommerswerd]

@Lexicus- the post a few back made me think of you scan up a bit and you'll immediately see why