German Bundestag Election

[kronic]

You mentioned all the reasons why Winner loves such a coalition

 

[GoodSarmatian]

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The only good thing about that coalition is that it might get people interested in politics again - - when they're taking to the streets.

And the people will get a more realistic picture of the FDP.
I am puzzled why they seem be so popular lately, especially after the financial crisis. Must be the fact that they haven't been in government the last 11 years and people don't see them as part of the problem right now.

 

[Winner]

many reasons... i don´t know where to start^^

Firstly the FDP stands for the liberal economic policies that are guilty for the financial crisis.

That's at least as stupid as to say that SPD stands for Communism which caused millions of deaths and terrible suffering around the world. In other words, nonsense.

Furthermore do they want cut down parts of our social security system like job protection.

Thus making the labor market more flexible, which has always led to greater productivity and lower unemployment. You don't want that why, exactly?

They want to delay the nuclear phaseout or even build new nuclear reactors.

The horror! More cheap and clean energy coupled with lesser dependence on fossil fuels! That must be prevented at all costs!

They want to lower the taxes and don´t care how our national debt rises.

Intelligent taxation scheme would stimulate the economy, decrease tax evasion and eventually lead to greater revenues. Oh yeah, and also the people would have more money to spend, consumption would rise and that would help companies to find customers. That's really devious.

They combined with the CDU remind me and everyone of my age and older of the 16 years under Helmut Kohl our chancellor from 82 to 98.

Terrible era - Germany became the leading power in Europe again and experienced stable economic growth and rising standards of living. I wonder how you survived.


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This is why I often say that voting left-wing is suicidal.

 

[mitsho]

You know that parts of what you said depend on values (nuclear energy) and on different interpretation of science (everything regarding economics, who can say that he is right regarding economics, a science that has just proven how it horribly failed). There are so many economists and they are the same way split up in the two groups, so these topics are also about values. ARe you for a more prominent role of the state or not.

I just want to say, it's futile to debate about this topic, because the opinions are so subjective and it is not possible to prove anyone right or wrong... It just seems that would distract from the question of how this election will go out...

 

[Winner]

OK, let's put ideology aside and leave economics out of this - I still don't get why should Germany decommission it's nuclear plants (which are providing over 20% of electricity in the country). Practically no large developed and technologically advanced country has made such a decision - look at Japan: they have 1000x better reasons to be pathologically afraid of anything nuclear, but they still rely on nuclear energy because they know it's the only viable alternative.

By giving up on nuclear energy, Germany will become more dependent on fossil fuels (higher emissions, not eco-friendly) and also on foreign energy imports, which is the exact opposite of the stated EU goals to increase energy security in Europe. This is why other countries in Europe are reconsidering their policies concerning nuclear energy.

 

[dot]

I just want to say, it's futile to debate about this topic, because the opinions are so subjective and it is not possible to prove anyone right or wrong... It just seems that would distract from the question of how this election will go out...

Quoted for truth.

In the end it comes down to what you believe in and what you think is most worthy to be protected and/or supported in a society.

On Topic: As I said before I think it'll be another grand coalition, i.e. CDU/SPD.

 

[mitsho]

OK, let's put ideology aside and leave economics out of this - I still don't get why should Germany decommission it's nuclear plants (which are providing over 20% of electricity in the country). Practically no large developed and technologically advanced country has made such a decision - look at Japan: they have 1000x better reasons to be pathologically afraid of anything nuclear, but they still rely on nuclear energy because they know it's the only viable alternative.

By giving up on nuclear energy, Germany will become more dependent on fossil fuels (higher emissions, not eco-friendly) and also on foreign energy imports, which is the exact opposite of the stated EU goals to increase energy security in Europe. This is why other countries in Europe are reconsidering their policies concerning nuclear energy.

I'm not decided on the issue, but my answer would be:

You think in short terms. Having a nuclear plant run another 10 years would give us another 10'000 years of time til the nuclear waste has vanished. (or something like that). So if you believe in long term, there is no reason to keep it going any more, the scale of the damage is exponential.

Again, it's more ideology than factual thinking. What is the goal? to live peaceful and not destroy our planet, go green. to be energy-independent from other countries and have enough for your own, go the other way.

Who am I to tell you which is more correct?

And in correction to my previous post. Of course one can talk about politics and issues like the economy, but let's not pretend that we have the slightest clue about the whole thing. It's just too complex for us single humans. So the discussion really boils down to the question of "more or less state" for me. Which if spelled out, pretty much gives you the 5+ parties the election is about. Subjective choice.

 

[Godwynn]

Thanks to my good friend Till, I learned that with a coalition in Berlin under the SPD and die Linke have a balanced the budget.

When was the last time Germany had a balanced budget?

 

[kronic]

2008...almost: a deficit of 2.5 billion for a budget of 1053.2 billion (all levels of government). The last balanced/surplus federal budget was in 2000 (when the government sold the UMTS licences for 50 billion or so). Before that you'd have to go back to the late 60s I think.

 

[Riffraff]

Thanks to my good friend Till, I learned that with a coalition in Berlin under the SPD and die Linke have a balanced the budget.

When was the last time Germany had a balanced budget?

Actually the current governemt was pretty much on track to achieving a balanced budget - that is before the crisis came and they went many many billions into the red.

 

[Azale]

They want to delay the nuclear phaseout or even build new nuclear reactors.

What is the German left's problem with nuclear power? I really do not understand, it seems counter intuitive, especially for the Greens.

 

[Echse]

I just want to say, it's futile to debate about this topic, because the opinions are so subjective and it is not possible to prove anyone right or wrong... It just seems that would distract from the question of how this election will go out...

It is very true and I don´t think I can convince Winner nor can he convince me.... we obviously have a completly different view on how a society should work.
I think this is because we grown up in different societies. It´s like when you´re parents are smokers you´re more likely become a non smoker and vice versa.

Nuclear Power on the other hand is a topic where it depends where you getting you information from. Nuclear power is neither cheap nor clean. This applies only for the production process in the plant but you have to take into account the costs for design and development of the technology. The massive subsidies to build the plant and the energy. The costs for a interim storage facility of nuclear waste and for the search for a final storage. The costs of dismanteling the plant after it´s use and so on.
My opinion is that the government has to put pressure on the industry to force them to make innovations. They will surely find another way to make money.

 

[uppi]

You think in short terms. Having a nuclear plant run another 10 years would give us another 10'000 years of time til the nuclear waste has vanished. (or something like that). So if you believe in long term, there is no reason to keep it going any more, the scale of the damage is exponential.

Err, what? If you run a nuclear plant 10 years longer, it will take exactly 10 years longer until all radioactive waste has crossed whatever radiation threshold you define as "vanished".

This is what I hate about any debate involving nuclear power plants. People usually have no idea what they're talking about.


By letting the nuclear power plants run a bit longer and make the cooperations owning them to pay heavily for that, we would get a lot of energy and a lot of money for basically nothing. We have to find a solution for the waste anyway, a few tons more or less won't matter much.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

I, predictably, would be in favor of die Linke. The only possible way for this to happen would be a SDP/Linke/Green coalition. I think a CDU/SDP coalition is more likely though.

EDIT: I think CDU/CSU will get c. 215 seats, SPD c. 225, FDP c. 65, Linke c. 55, and Greens c. 50.

 

[uppi]

Nuclear Power on the other hand is a topic where it depends where you getting you information from. Nuclear power is neither cheap nor clean. This applies only for the production process in the plant but you have to take into account the costs for design and development of the technology. The massive subsidies to build the plant and the energy. The costs for a interim storage facility of nuclear waste and for the search for a final storage. The costs of dismanteling the plant after it´s use and so on.
My opinion is that the government has to put pressure on the industry to force them to make innovations. They will surely find another way to make money.

But all these costs have either already been paid or will have to be paid anyway. Letting the power plants that are already there run longer, is certainly cheaper and cleaner than building coal power plants to replace them now. Over the whole lifetime of a nuclear power plant you might have an argument, but these plants are already there. Why not milk them as long as they safely work?

 

[kronic]

What is the German left's problem with nuclear power? I really do not understand, it seems counter intuitive, especially for the Greens.

It's not solely a problem of the left actually. Polls show that a majority of voters not even want to let current plants run a few years longer (which is what CDU/CSU and FDP want). Building new plants is an absolute non-issue. Bring it on the agenda before a federal election and you're in trouble...

For the Greens, it would be absurd to become pro-nuclear. The anti-nuclear movements of the 70s and 80s are one of the roots of the German Greens.

 

[mitsho]

Then why are we building these huge waste deposit sites that need geological surveys so they survive the "millions" of years?

As I said in my post, I'm not an expert and not particularly interested in the topic, I just said that nuclear power has huge long term influences. Which is why it is not good, some people say.

 

[uppi]

Then why are we building these huge waste deposit sites that need geological surveys so they survive the "millions" of years?

As I said in my post, I'm not an expert and not particularly interested in the topic, I just said that nuclear power has huge long term influences. Which is why it is not good, some people say.

Yes, decay of current nuclear waste will take a very long time. In the case of the long-lived components the millions of years figure is indeed correct (but these are the least problem, because they're not very radioactive).

But if you let a power plant run 10 years longer, the time until all waste has decayed will go up exactly by 10 years. Instead of a hypothetical 1000000 years from now, it would be 1000010 years. I am not losing any sleep over that.

 

[Godwynn]

Where is the nuclear waste being stored now? Somewhere in Germany is it one of your major exports?

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Don't they make it into Vegemite or something?