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German who had four children with sister jailed

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by marshal zhukov, Nov 11, 2005.

  1. marshal zhukov

    marshal zhukov good economist wannabe

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    I read this article at MSNBC:
    the link:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9994652/

    "A German court sentenced a man who had four children by his younger sister to 2-1/2 years in prison for incest on Thursday."
    ...
    "The pair, identified by German media as 28-year-old Patrick S. and 21-year-old Susan K., grew up separately, spending periods with foster parents and did not meet until 2000"
    ...
    "The siblings began living together as a couple in 2001 and continued their relationship despite warnings from the authorities until Patrick S. was sentenced to 11 months in prison for incest in 2004."
    ...
    "Defense lawyer Joachim Froemling said he might appeal to the constitutional court, calling the offense of incest a “historical relic” as outdated as previous laws against adultery and homosexuality."


    I am not sure incest should be a crime, if the reproduction method is safe enough to ensure that the babies are born without defects, I don't see reasons to why there should be laws outlawing it.

    Of course I am against incest on moral grounds. I mean I would never have a relationship with a sister of mine even if she were as hot as Jesssica Simpson. Let alone have sex with her.
    I just think it is unfair that he has gone to jail.

    EDIT: Forgot to add the link
     
  2. Hitro

    Hitro Feistus Raclettus

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    I agree with you on that. But one might also ask why it should be illegal to have babies born with defects in the first place...

    Incest is gross to me but so are other legal things...

    It would be interesting to see how the Constitutional Court views that issue.
     
  3. Bozo Erectus

    Bozo Erectus Master Baker

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    Its only illegal for men to engage in incest, but not women? Why isnt she in jail too? :confused:
     
  4. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    The chance you'll got a child with defects with your sister isn't much higher than you'll got it with any other woman. It's simply a mystification used to justify the illegality of incest.
     
  5. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    The way that I understand it, the immune system of a incest-child is significantly weaker than that of a normal child.
     
  6. marshal zhukov

    marshal zhukov good economist wannabe

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    I forgot to add the link, the reason why she wasn't arrested was that she has some learning problems.
     
  7. Bozo Erectus

    Bozo Erectus Master Baker

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    Is she officially ********? In that case then I can understand him being the only one to go to jail.
     
  8. FredLC

    FredLC A Lawyer as You Can See! Retired Moderator

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    Well, in Brazil, incest is not a crime. The law forbiddens marriage of sibilings, sure (as well as other close relatives), but it will only lead to jail because the only manner for this to happen is by gorging documents.

    Brother and sister simply living together without officially marring, while unpleasent and socially detested, is a legal behavior that nobody can prevent.

    So, under the light of the info on this thread - and considering that only he was arrested - I concluded that one of the two is true:

    - German law, different from Brazilian, considers incest a crime, but in this stance, the woman had some form of mental handcap and could not be held accountable;

    - It's not illegal, but they married by forging illegal documents/bribing the required authorities, and he was the only one to perform such acts (hence being the only one to get jail time). While normally she could be held accountable as well as an accessory, there are a few situations where this is hard to prove.

    Quite frankly, I doubt the law would consider this a crime only for man.

    Regards :).
     
  9. silver 2039

    silver 2039 Deity

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    If both were willing and had knwoledge of the consequences I don't see why it shold be a problem. BTW I was under the impression that having children from an incestous relationship only raised the percenatge my a small amount. Like .4% increase in risk of genetic disorders.
     
  10. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Emperor

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    I assume that the percentage of birth defects gets progressively higher with each generation. Look at all the idiots and madmen that inter-marriage produced in the royal houses of Europe during the middle ages.

    Another problem with allowing sexual relations within the family is that it encourages sexual abuse. Females typically have less power in social settings that are closed and permit non-traditional unions. So rape and abuse can become a problem. I don't have links, but I do recall seeing articles and documentaries where women (well girls, really) were forced into unions that they objected to. Certain cults, some Morman communities, and some Amish communities have problems with sexual abuse.
     
  11. marshal zhukov

    marshal zhukov good economist wannabe

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    I just don't see the connection between sexual relations within the family and encouragement of sexual abuse. That is a highly speculative thing to state.

    Unless of course the relationship within the family is forced, which would be by itself an abuse. But if it were to occur naturally, the relatioship with in the family, I don't see how it can encourage sexual abuse.
     
  12. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Emperor

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    It's not speculative, it's based on articles and/or documentaries that I have encountered. Daughters and wives tend to have less power in isolated communities, which (in the US at least) is always the case were incest and polygamy are allowed. Here is the article on the Amish that I alluded to. Unfortunately I do not recall the name of the cult that was the documentary subject, but basically they were arranging polygamous marriages between girls and the 'elders' in the community.
     
  13. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    Those would be the 'Fundamentalist' Mormon communities, where young girls are coerced into marriages with the much older community leaders. As far as I know, when the LDS Church itself officially sanctioned plural marriage, there was a lot less coercion, perhaps largely because it was a larger society and therefore harder to get away with things like that.
     
  14. Jawz II

    Jawz II Oh Dear

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    the real problem this family faces is how to get not only one, but four banjos in germany! :D

    i think banjos are pretty rare there..
     
  15. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

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    That's disgusting.

    I bet the reason he got such a light sentence is that Germany needs all the babies they can get.
     
  16. kronic

    kronic Deity

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    Try harder. :lol:
     
  17. Hitro

    Hitro Feistus Raclettus

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    Don't dismiss that idea that early. I mean, we lack a serious religious right at the moment. ;)

    By the way, what happened to your post in the Veteran's Day thread?
     
  18. kronic

    kronic Deity

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    I just raised that question in a PM. :lol: You could at least have given some support for my position. :p
     
  19. Hitro

    Hitro Feistus Raclettus

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    I was busy when I first read it. And just when I wanted to quote it to take a jab at those carnival idiots it was gone. :lol:
     
  20. kronic

    kronic Deity

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    I didn't even recognize that today was some carnival going on. What did you do at 11.11?
     

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