Germany discriminating against Jews or protecting children ?

Please point out to me where removing the foreskin is akin to removing a tumor.

Put your guns away. I wasn't making any comparison, between the two. In the United States, common sense laws such as this have been used to ridiculous ends, before. I don't know how German law works. I was just expressing my concern for what this law may lead to, in other cases.
 
@JohnRM
Germany has no common law. "Precedents" only exist in so far as that a judge cares to follow it. That has the consequence that the legal judgment of the specific circumstances of a specific case are unfit to establish some kind of new principle unless other judges are willing to go along with it. Judges often will follow loose guidelines of a precedent when established by y a court of a higher level, but never in a way which is free of context.
Moreover, having studied some German law myself, I can assure you that what this verdict is based on is the reasoning that a child may only receive physical harm for the purpose of preventing even further physical harm (like cancer).

I wish we had a common sense justice system, in America.
 
Germany still doesn't care about the religious practice of Jews as well as Muslims regarding a virtually harmless operation safely performed on billions of children for clear health reasons? Gee, what a surprise.

http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%. Three randomized controlled trials have shown that male circumcision provided by well trained health professionals in properly equipped settings is safe. WHO/UNAIDS recommendations emphasize that male circumcision should be considered an efficacious intervention for HIV prevention in countries and regions with heterosexual epidemics, high HIV and low male circumcision prevalence.

Male circumcision provides only partial protection, and therefore should be only one element of a comprehensive HIV prevention package which includes:
- the provision of HIV testing and counseling services;
- treatment for sexually transmitted infections;
- the promotion of safer sex practices;
- the provision of male and female condoms and promotion of their correct and consistent use.
 
Germany still doesn't care about the religious practice of Jews and a virtually harmless operation safely performed on billions of children for clear health reasons? Gee, what a surprise.

http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

I don't think that infants have a particularly high rate of HIV/AIDS contraction. Are you sure that this isn't something that can't wait until the age of reason? Say 13?
 
I don't think that infants have a particularly high rate of HIV/AIDS contraction. Are you sure that this isn't something that can't wait until the age of reason? Say 13?
It isn't just AIDs infections that benefit from this common practice in many modern countries:

http://www.circinfo.com/benefits/bmc.html

But there are many other situations where circumcision helps prevent future disease or discomfort. We should seek to prevent problems arising, rather than deal with the problems once they occur. Let us look at some of these, in no particular order.

1 Where the foreskin cannot comfortably be pulled back over the glans (knob) of the penis. Now, up until the age of five or six, many boys cannot retract their foreskins - mums and dads beware - if you try too early you may do some damage. Above the age of six or seven, it is important that boys be taught how to clean under the foreskin, making sure the skin is pulled right back. If your son cannot do that he may need circumcising. Boys frequently forget or deliberately avoid this routine and run into difficulties.

2 If the foreskin cannot easily be moved when the penis becomes hard, or if that causes pain - this is not only a childhood problem. At puberty, as the penis grows and masturbation begins, problems may emerge. Some men have pain on intercourse, which they then try to avoid for that reason. If so, you (and your partner) will benefit from your circumcision just as many boys do. Some men are afraid to admit to this problem, but it is curable by circumcision.

3 Where you and your partner keep getting 'thrush' infections.Some call this 'sexual ping-pong'. One keeps passing it back to the other. Of course, you may first try creams or tablets from your doctor or chemist, but if it keeps coming back, circumcision will cure it. It did for me. The foreskin is a warm and moist incubator under which infections can easily develop.

Are there benefits from circumcision?

There are several:

1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!

2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.

3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?

4 Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.)

A BBC television programme in November 2000 showed two Ugandan tribes across the valley from one another. One practised circumcision and had very little AIDS, whereas, it was common in the other tribe, who then also started circumcising. This programme showed how the infection thrived in the lining of the foreskin, making it much easier to pass on.

5 As with HIV, so some protection exists against other sexually transmitted infections. Accordingly, if a condom splits or comes off, there is some protection for the couple. However, the only safe sex is to stick to one partner or abstain.

6 Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.

7 Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.

8 Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.
And do you really want to have the foreskin of your penis removed when you are 13 instead of as an infant when you can't remember a thing about it?
 
Germany still doesn't care about the religious practice of Jews as well as Muslims regarding a virtually harmless operation safely performed on billions of children for clear health reasons? Gee, what a surprise.

Your points made me inclined to be even further opposed to the ruling, but these insinuations of motives are superfluous and stupid.
 
It is part of the OP and even the subject bar. Germany is discriminating against Jews, Muslims, and anybody else who decides to have this simple procedure done that has benefited billions of Christians and others in the US and elsewhere. I think you need a First Amendment-style change to the equivalent of your constitution to protect these practices so they can never be threatened like this again.

In principle, the court clearly did not do the right thing as you claimed.
 
And do you really want to have the foreskin of your penis removed when you are 13 instead of as an infant when you can't remember a thing about it?

I don't think the judge will be impressed. If that's the best you can come up with(against circumcision of infants, not circumcision in general), I honestly think the religious argument is better. And even that is pretty worthless imo.
 
I have already posted numerous quite logical reasons why it shouldn't be banned. Did you miss them all by taking a single post out of context with the rest?
 
It is part of the OP. Germany is discriminating against Jews
The OP raised this question. You went on to insinuate "Oh of course they are! Who would be surprised". Which is nonsense if you cared to consider the actual reasoning behind the judgment. Which basically is "No you may not cut off body parts of your children. Never mind if you are a Jew, a Muslim, a Christian, or just like cutting off stuff". How sound the judgment really is with regards to circumcision is a different matter. It doesn't require some imagined tendency of German courts to discriminate against Jews or other religious minorities.
 
I have already posted numerous quite logical reasons why it shouldn't be banned. Did you miss them all by taking a single post out of context with the rest?

I read through them and the only good reason I could find was something about urinary infection(sexually transmitted diseases are not problems for infants).

And when one of their argument goes like this:

Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.

Then, they're seriously clutching at straws.
 
I never claimed that Nazi Germany was on the rise again as you are falsely insinuating, even though Germany still has a problem with far-right hate groups.

Discrimination, xenophobia, and intolerance are just as rampant in Germany as it is in most of Europe and the US:

Muslims and the Politics of Indifference

Islam, Jihadism, and Depoliticization in France and Germany

German Muslims Suffer Job Discrimination

Germany's Orthodox Jews outraged at government 'discrimination'

Holocaust scholar: 'Jew' has become curse word among German youth

Xenophobia and Anti-Semitism in Modern Germany

This act in particular is blatant discrimination against the religious practices of Jews and Muslims.
 
It isn't just AIDs infections that benefit from this common practice in many modern countries:

http://www.circinfo.com/benefits/bmc.html

I can cherry pick consequences of male circumcision too:
Circumcisions may remove too much or too little skin.[66][71] If insufficient skin is removed, the child may still develop phimosis in later life.[66] Other complications include concealed penis, urinary fistulas, chordee, cysts, lymphedema, ulceration of the glans, necrosis of all or part of the penis, hypospadias, epispadias and impotence.

The British Medical Association (BMA) states that "it is now widely accepted, including by the BMA, that this surgical procedure has medical and psychological risks."[59] Milos and Macris (1992) argue that circumcision encodes the perinatal brain with violence and negatively affects infant-maternal bonding and trust.[60] Goldman discussed the possible trauma of circumcision on children and parents, anxieties over the circumcised state, a tendency to repeat the trauma, and suggested a need on the part of circumcised doctors to find medical justifications for the procedure.[61] Furthermore, Schultheiss (1998) reports males attempting to undo the effects of circumcision through the practice of foreskin restoration.[62]

A literature review by Gerharz and Haarmann (2000) reached a similar conclusion.[64] Boyle et al. (2002) state that circumcision may result in psychological harm, including post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), citing a study reporting high rates of PTSD among Filipino boys after either ritual or medical circumcision.[56]
 
Until blatant religious discrimination such as this is finally properly dealt with, there will be many who chose to ignore it.
 
I can cherry pick consequences of male circumcision too:
Actually, that article is a good reason why circumcision by proper medical personnel should never be banned. You apparently overlooked the first two sentences:

Circumcisions may remove too much or too little skin.[66][71] If insufficient skin is removed, the child may still develop phimosis in later life.[66] Other complications include...

And throwing random links my way is really good debating style.
Those are hardly "random links". Would you prefer if I quoted sections and bolded them so they couldn't be peremptorily ignored? The first two are even "scholarly" according to Google.
 
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