1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Germany: obsoleted at discovery of Zulu

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by MantaRevan, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. HaloCapella

    HaloCapella Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    54
    Gender:
    Female
    I've been playing as Germany against a close border Immortal Zulu AI for a while and an early citadel can really fend of an attacking Zulu well. And fought enough to have a citadel adjacent to all three cities. I'll just have to see if i can go to Panzers.
     
  2. EYGuy

    EYGuy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    33
    I think Germany can use a makeover, but it's not quite that the Zulu are strictly better in every capacity.
     
  3. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,725
    Germany deserves rework because it was originally designed with a spammable UU that upgraded into to main Infantry line. Later redesign pulled the rug out from under that and the Landsknecht started upgrading into the more marginal anti-mounted/armor line.
     
  4. JokerJace

    JokerJace Prince

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    492
  5. mabalogna

    mabalogna Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    Canada
    There are 2 types of combat in the game - Melee & Range - all units fall within one or the other

    Destroyers are technically 'melee' units, but do not benefit from 'melee promotions' or production bonus' for Melee units. This logic applies with land units as well.
    Ancient -> Classical -> Medieval melee units are "Melee" units.
    Renaissance -> Industrial -> Modern -> Atomic -> Future are "Gunpowder" units.

    The Zulu benefit gives 50% reduction on maintenance for Melee units (Ancient -> Medieval)
    The Germans get 25% reduction on ALL land units (Melee, Gunpowder, Cavalry, Range, Armor, AT, AA, Helicopter)

    Build an Ikanda, which provides a unique bonus to Melee units, then produce a Musket and you'll notice that the promotion is not awarded to you - this is because that unit is considered Gunpowder and will not receive benefits intended for Melee.
     
  6. elijahfire

    elijahfire Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    91
    ^ this
     
  7. Babri

    Babri Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,450
    Location:
    Pakistan
    I would advise you to do some homework before calling someone wrong. The other poster summed it quite nicely for me :-



    Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
  8. Rhaegar7

    Rhaegar7 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    83
    Quite a lot of melee warfare late game actually. Don't make the mistake of thinking that once you get gunpowder and the unit is not melee. They all are.

    If you get hit back.. it's melee.
     
  9. Thuellai

    Thuellai Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    127
    Melee Unit Class, not 'melee' as in 'engages in 1-tile combat'

    From musketmen on, those units are Gunpowder class and are only given the bonuses which affect Gunpowder units, just as there is a switch-over from Mounted unit class to Armored unit class.
     
  10. Dtekkar

    Dtekkar Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    USA
    The trouble I have with the german pike is that it's a total non-bo combo with the barbarian conversion: If your campaigns against the barbarian hordes went well, you have more low quality units than you can pay the maintenance for, nevermind upgrade. The option of spamming more generic melee troops as civil service arrives soon after is unsavory.
     
  11. Wuddel

    Wuddel Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    290
    Location:
    Zürich, Switzerland
    I can't make out the part in the Polycast where they talk about. (min please).

    Germany's UA and the Landsknecht feel incredibly bland. In BNW there are handaxes but they are chariot archer replacements :/ I really do not like UU which "superpower" is that they are cheaper. Just boring.

    And the Zeros are not even shown on the map most of the time ...
     
  12. JokerJace

    JokerJace Prince

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    492
    yeap, can anyone tell me the exact wording of them acknowledging that Germany/Japan need some reworking?
     
  13. Securion

    Securion Civ Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    746
    Location:
    Earth (mostly..)
    This. Bump.
     
  14. Dtekkar

    Dtekkar Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    USA
    Played another game of BNW Germany, this time with autocracy, at immortal level, mostly to try out lightning war with panzers. Blitzkrieg is pretty darn good with Panzers, as they have the bonus move to really help you get at the squishy stuff, to the point where modern armor wasn't always a worthwhile upgrade. I was surprised to have won the war I fought with Blitzkrieg, it really is an immensely powerful ideology, without ZOC tanks rival aircraft in power level, and complement them well, able to clear away AAA, making the air strikes exceedingly deadly.

    I'm happy that autocracy has some strong ideologies, because order has so many great policies, and freedom certainly has some cultural and diplomatic silver bullets. The last couple games I played with autocracy it wasn't much to write home about, but in both there were strong culture players trendsetting and I limped into the autocracy trend too late for the fast tech steal to matter.
     
  15. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Location:
    Illinois, USA
    I am amazed at how many people in this topic have no idea that melee units ( hand to hand combat units early in the tech tree prior to gunpowders mostly) are not the same as Melee units, which are the opposite of ranged units.

    The Zulu only apply to melee units, aka those pregunpowder ones. It isn't any unit that isn't ranged.

    I guess the devs did make it a bit confusing by using the same term for both.
     
  16. Babri

    Babri Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,450
    Location:
    Pakistan
    crazyeyes:

    Anyway even I came to know about this quite recently despite of playing ciV since its release.

    Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
  17. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,354
    Using a small, highly promoted military is not a viable strategy for an offensive war.
     
  18. superliminal

    superliminal Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2013
    Messages:
    126
    With Zulu's UA, however, you can have a large, highly promoted military. With full military buildings, you can get three promotions out of the gate, one battle later getting March-Heal or Blitz.

    Their unique promotions from their UB are also very strong.
     
  19. Merciorum

    Merciorum Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    539
    Location:
    Regnum Britannie
    AHEM. Back to the matter at hand, where in the polycast do they mention Japan+Germany changes?
     
  20. monkspider

    monkspider Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    Wichita, Kansas
    They start talking about this at about the 16 minute mark here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=actIvzQsbHI

    The developers are fielded a question about Germany being an older, weaker cousin of the Zulu. The developers say there are two civs they are not happy with and want to address before any others, 1. Germany and 2. Japan. They say they want to look at how the new barbarians help Germany when making changes but they do say there is a lot of overlap with the Zulu. For Japan they say there is a lot of warmonger civs in the game now and there are a lot of new gameplay mechanics that have been introduced that could complement Japan. They don't like the Bushido ability because it is too passive and doesn't change the way that you play.They say they have thought interesting a mechanic that makes Japan more resistant to influence from other people's culture but that it would be more appropriate for an AI ability and wouldn't be that fun for the player. They concluded by saying they are going to keep brainstorming.
     

Share This Page