Germany/Prussia, Holy Roman Empire, and Goths will likely be DLC civs

[Evie]

We can have our cake, the ingredients to the cake, and still eat the cake: Austria in Exploration representing the height of the Habsburg hegemony before the Thirty Years War ; AND Maria Theresa as a leader available to both representing her specific reign ; and Austria-Hungary in modern representing the post-Napoleonic Empire (if we want that one too).

 

[Jeppetto]

Id expect Austria (more so representing Austro-Hungarian Empire) more represented as they were in Humankind, as Modern Age civ. Bohemia, HRE and Hungary as EA civs could all end their path there.

 

[Evie]

I'd rather have Austria-Hungary represent Austria-Hungary, for myself ; and I'd rather not have the Holy Roman Empire as a civilization in teh game when ther ea re so many other Germany opptions to chose from.

But we'll see.

 

[Krikkit1]

Spain is one of the largest countries in Europe as of today, however the game suggests it doesn't exist anymore in the modern age, and that its people have become Mexicans by now. For me that's just absurd, but again, agree to disagree. People obviously have different opinions about that.

“one of” the largest countries on the second smallest continent (even counting Antarctica)

It’s not saying the people are Mexicans, it’s saying that the most closely related power center is Mexico (which it is)
Modern Spain is an IP.

 

[Nikolai II]

I'd rather have Austria-Hungary represent Austria-Hungary, for myself ; and I'd rather not have the Holy Roman Empire as a civilization in teh game when ther ea re so many other Germany opptions to chose from.

But we'll see.

I think it's enough with one Germany/Prussia/Bavaria/etc. I'd rather not have the HRE though, it was a failed state and barely a state at all. More an organization like the modern EU, only less coherent.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I'd put it between the earliest start date being 1650 and the latest 1700.

So far they have revealed the Exploration Tech Tree only to the next to last set of techs, one of which is 'Gunpowder'. The units available from that Tech are a Galleon, a Bombard-type cannon and a 'Musketman'(identifications by @AriochIV on his Well-of-Souls site).

The dates for the first appearance of the Bombard are roughly 1360 - 1375.
First appearance of the gun-armed Galleon: 1530 - 1560
First arquebus or musket as an individual weapon: 1425 - 1475, with the Tercio formed by 1530.

Now, there is one more 'tier' of Technologies before the end of the Age, but this 5th Tier basically dates itself by the units available to about 1360 - 1560. Allow another 200 years for the sixth Exploration Age tier of tech, and we are at 1760 - the start of the 'take-off' for Industrialization in England (effective Steam power is just 15 years way with Watt's developments of 1775 - 1776).

The major Unknown is how much time/years/turns they plan for the Crisis Periods at the end of each Age, but I suggest that Modern Age is not designed to start before the end of the 18th century, and the Napoleonic Wars, rise of rampant (European) Nationalism, and start of the social and ideological discord raised by Industrialization may all be part of the Crisis that leads into the Modern Age.

As for the Holy Roman Empire, as I've posted before, if there is a massive campaign to include it, I would put it in a 'special category' of entity which you may form in-game, not receive as a choice by starting a new Age. It is, after all, almost everything the traditional 'Civ' is not: it is wildly discordant and disconnected as to ethnicity, identity, language and space, it was, at best, a set of political compromises from start to finish, and its military power frequently relied on the cooperation of mutually hostile internal states and polities. Other Civs in the game have some of those problems, but I don't know of any that had all of them, all the time. It deserves to be handled differently, and leave its components like Austria, Bavaria, Prussia and Saxony a separate existence.

 

[Krikkit1]

I think it's enough with one Germany/Prussia/Bavaria/etc. I'd rather not have the HRE though, it was a failed state and barely a state at all. More an organization like the modern EU, only less coherent.

I think it makes perfect sense, it is more of a state than Antiquity Greece, and could have multiple traditions from the multiple parts of its area and history. It could connect to a modern Germany/Prussia, Austria, and Italy

 

[Xandinho]

I find Austria-Hungary so boring. I'd much rather have Austria and Hungary represented separately. However, I agree with those who say Austria will likely be in the Modern Age and Hungary possibly in the Exploration Age. Maybe they’ll appear in an expansion featuring enhanced diplomacy mechanics.

 

[ColtSeavers]

it’s saying that the most closely related power center is Mexico (which it is)
Modern Spain is an IP.

Interesting interpretation....

 

[mitsho]

So what are the proposals for how the HRE civ should be named then? I'm interested to hear. Since Empire is not used in civilization-naming, Holy is an adjective and Roman refers to a civ an era earlier. And what are the inhabitants of the HRE? The Holy Roman Empireans? The Holy Romans?

Like I tried to point out before, the name just doesn't work. Or rather I struggle to see how it could work in the framework of the game. So that's why in my opinion there's a need for another name for the civ that we refer to in here by an abbreviation (HRE).

In general, there's a few ways how this whole region or civilization-"tree" could be done, and it really is up to the developers which way they'll chose. There will be complaints in here anyways.

 

[Krikkit1]

So what are the proposals for how the HRE civ should be named then? I'm interested to hear. Since Empire is not used in civilization-naming, Holy is an adjective and Roman refers to a civ an era earlier. And what are the inhabitants of the HRE? The Holy Roman Empireans? The Holy Romans?

Like I tried to point out before, the name just doesn't work. Or rather I struggle to see how it could work in the framework of the game. So that's why in my opinion there's a need for another name for the civ that we refer to in here by an abbreviation (HRE).

In general, there's a few ways how this whole region or civilization-"tree" could be done, and it really is up to the developers which way they'll chose. There will be complaints in here anyways.

“France” has the official name “French Empire”

Official Name: Holy Roman Empire
Official Adjective: Holy Roman ?maybe add Imperial?
no confusion with Rome because Rome is Antiquity, Holy Roman Empire is Exploration

unofficial name:HRE
unofficial adj: HRE

 

[ColtSeavers]

“one of” the largest countries on the second smallest continent (even counting Antarctica)

Based on population, the ranking is as follows: Asia, Africa, Europe, North America, South America, Australia, Antarctica.

 

[ColtSeavers]

I think it's enough with one Germany/Prussia/Bavaria/etc. I'd rather not have the HRE though, it was a failed state and barely a state at all. More an organization like the modern EU, only less coherent.

Lasted almost 1000 thousand years and had a lot of impact on European history, I wouldn't call that a "failed state". As you said, it wasn't a state, it was an Empire, which offers a different perspective than just playing another plain vanilla nation state at that time.

 

[Krikkit1]

Based on population, the ranking is as follows: Asia, Africa, Europe, North America, South America, Australia, Antarctica.

I was talking about area (since that’s what the op was talking about)

pop wise
Europe #3, Spain #7(of Europe)…#31 overall

Area
Europe #6, Spain #4 (of Europe..not bad for Europe)..#51 overall (but not impressive overall)


Civ7 needs to let you keep your name so that a IRL Spanish player can continue to play “Modern Spain“ just with Mexican/French/Meijii/Siam/etc uniques

 

[durfal]

Starting to compare territories and people living in it is complete irrelevant. Many, many civilizations have had small terrritories or populations, which shouldn't exclude them of having an important impact on world history.
And having a big territory and/or population doesn't mean the opposite either.
Look at my own civ (so to speak) of the Netherlands. We are a small speck on the World map (even if you include the Belgian territories) with a relative small population and still had a world spanning empire and are still in the top 20 of economic powerhouses in the world with influences everywhere. And there are loads of examples like this throughout history all over the world.

 

[untitledjuan]

Yes, and people criticise that, and lot of people argue, that they think/ hope the DLCs will solve that for some Civ Unlocks like Spain/ Mexico etc.

I do think that future DLCs will make many Civ transitions a lot more "direct", so to speak, than they currently are.

However, if there is one really direct and historically accurate transition in the base game it has to be the Spain>Mexico transition.

In political, cultural and religious terms, Mexico is one of the direct successors of the Spanish Viceroyalty of New Spain (as it was called during the colonial era).

 

[Krikkit1]

Starting to compare territories and people living in it is complete irrelevant. Many, many civilizations have had small terrritories or populations, which shouldn't exclude them of having an important impact on world history.
And having a big territory and/or population doesn't mean the opposite either.
Look at my own civ (so to speak) of the Netherlands. We are a small speck on the World map (even if you include the Belgian territories) with a relative small population and still had a world spanning empire and are still in the top 20 of economic powerhouses in the world with influences everywhere. And there are loads of examples like this throughout history all over the world.

That world spanning empire meant you had a big population and territory at that time.

If you look at the city of Rome, it wasn’t all that impressive in pop/area/economy compared to the whole world…. but the Roman Empire was a decent chunk of the world in all those categories (especially for the Age)

The Netherlands does have impact even today, but it’s IP level impact, (still significant)

They should definitely get in at some point because of some of the uniqueness as an underwater/terraforming civ. But they would more likely be Exploration than Modern (they could be either, especially if Modern has a strong corporation focus)

And if they are Exploration, Civ 7 should* be made to let you keep the Dutch name& city list when you choose your next set of uniques (French, American, Buganda,etc)

hopefully soon