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Getting a religion as Spain

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Ticio, May 23, 2020 at 5:18 AM.

  1. Ticio

    Ticio Chieftain

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    Hi everyone!

    So I'm having a lot of troubles managin to form a religion as Spain in Deity.
    It seems that the AI always get all the Great Prophets even if I rush for it.
    In the best scenario, I'm left with a terrible religion now that the AI chooses good religious traits.

    Is there some way to speed it up? with other religious civs i have no problem, but with spain is struggle even with divine spark and the purple great profet card (and making my cities sufer for the production effort making the shrines).

    P.S: Have they changed the Start bias for Spain? I restarted the game 30 times in diferents maps and, more or less, 23 times I just spawned in continental borders or 2/3 distant of them!!
     
  2. tiamats4esgares

    tiamats4esgares Warlord

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    I can get a religion almost every time on Deity playing as China, Sweden, or Maori, and none of them have bonuses that really help that much. So you're doing something wrong.

    I'll tell you what I do as China/Sweden because Maori plays so differently. I ALWAYS build Holy Site as my 3rd thing (Slinger > Settler > Holy Site. This means that I ALWAYS research the tech for it 2nd, so it lines up perfectly. Usually Animal Husbandry first.

    You can also often buy the Shrine if you want but if not, try and buy the Great Prophet then instead if it looks like you won't get it in time. If you generate enough faith you could even buy with faith instead of gold but don't count on it.

    You should never have to use the great Prophet card because you should have the religion before you can even use that. I also have never once used Divine Spark. I have no idea how you can't found a religion using Divine Spark.

    EDIT: Oh, and the +1 production policy card is usually going to help more than the gold/faith one.
     
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  3. Ticio

    Ticio Chieftain

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    I understand, I was doing scout > settler > builder > Holy site (and if I was to be attacked, i changed any of the list for a slinger).

    I also was using the +1faith and gold, but i was already thinking it may be a mistake... I will try changing these!!
     
  4. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

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    I don't like the God King policy card, yeah. The small trickle of Faith is enough to give you a pantheon after 25 turns in the worst case scenario, but you miss out 25 turns of accelerated production which you could use to set up whatever you need.

    Generally I find it more useful to get an extra scout and use it to fish for a goodie hut relic. If not, an early holy site with good adjacency (+2 or more is what you should aim for) will guarantee a religion. Spain's start bias is coast so save your money to buy tiles adjacent to woods or mountains within reach of Madrid if you can.

    The main reason to get the early pantheon nowadays is Religious Settlements and its early free settler. If you don't need this (or if the pantheon is gone, and it WILL be gone on higher difficulty settings), you're better off just getting a later pantheon. Religious Settlements is the best one, but other pantheons (culture from pastures, free builder, faith from high appeal) are strong and usually not picked until later.
     
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    None of these are as important. Only projects are, as early as possible before you get many civics or techs as these decrease the value. Each completed project gives an extra 5 GPPoints above what is earn for the project and high production + low discoveries mean projects complete /in 4-5 turns netting you 10-12 GP points. Add them to whatever else you can muster and maybe even buy the last few points with faith if need be. Divine spark help but building a shrine when you could be running projects is a fail. A shrine will create +1 GPP when finished While 70 production equals up to 3 projects which gives you 20-30 extra GPP points before a shrine was even made.
    Just hope you are not attacked, get a scout and warrior both used to protect your radius and body block enemy units as much as possible while not giving away the location of your capital.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020 at 6:47 AM
  6. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Chieftain

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    To reply to this specifically: I’m 99% sure Spain has no bias for starting near continent borders. That’s part of the reason why they’re considered a trash tier Civ - you can go an entire game without using their civ ability. Their only bias is a Tier 3 preference for coast.
     
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  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    :eek:
    conquistador makes them a fantastically fun and dangerous civ, you just gotta get there. Certainly not trash.
     
  8. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Chieftain

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    Oh don’t get me wrong - in terms of their bonuses, Conquistadors are right up there with the best UUs in the game: easily activated +10 combat strength, which can be strengthened with another +4 through the Wars of Religion policy card, plus instant conversion of the target city.

    The problem is surviving until that point. As the OP identified, early game Spain gets pulled in so many directions. You need Holy Sites to get a religion; but you also need Encampments for domination; but you also also need Harbours for trade & fleets; but you also also also need Campuses to keep up in military tech; but you also also also also need culture to reach Theocracy. There’s very little synchronisation, very little in the way of early bonuses, and absolutely no protection if you get invaded. If you survive all that to reach Conquistador stage, then bully for you, you’ve basically won. But with the exception of Mali, I’d say Spain is possibly up there with ‘hardest early game of any Civ’.
     
  9. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing Prince

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    Firaxis for the love of all that is holy give Religious Unit the Escort Formation button.:hug:

    I thought that you get the +4 if you don't have a religion and the opponent does? I haven't played them in a while.
     
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  10. Ticio

    Ticio Chieftain

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    Thank you all! I was just doing it so wrong...

    I'm still quite new to the game and I have a lot to learn!

    I manage to have a relogion now, but the problems are I'm quite behind in science and culture...
     
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  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    That is normal for deity but religion makes it worse. You gotta think Pingala really.
    there are plenty of civs that are vanilla early @Drivingrevilo it is no worse than them.
     
  12. Ticio

    Ticio Chieftain

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    YES! That exactly what I'm seeing on spain!

    They have interesting bonuses but they have no conexion between them.

    For example, If rush religion, then I fall behind on the rest. So i cannot take advantage of the +1 food +1 production of intercontinental trade because i Have to limit ports and trade centers. If I want science so to have the conquistadors i cannot do culture, so I will not have acces (in time) to missiom and armadas that are in exploration... but I want Teocracy that is just in another part of the civic tree!!


    So my problem is that I cannot do everything. I normally end with a very little empire because I have no time to do more colonists as i have to focus on too many different things.

    I really really like that they are some civs focused on "colonial" style gameplay, to go and discover new lands and make them even bigger than the original. But I think only England is able to do it. With England you have bonus making ports, trade routes, and super effective production zones. That help you going super fast and having enough production to build fast.

    As spain I always end strong on only one thing (militar, economic or religious) but lacking so much on the others that i cannot profit of the bonuses.
    Or the total opposite, trying to have all the bonus, I end up lacking on everything.


    I don't know, maybe is because I still suck at the game but I found them a lot harder to play compared with other civs...


    P.S: I mentioned the bias because the last times I tried to play, i frequently appeared between 2 continents. Maybe they added a new bias or somethin (or I was extremely lucky)
     
  13. tiamats4esgares

    tiamats4esgares Warlord

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    I don't like any civ that has bonuses based on continents. It is way too arbitrary
     
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  14. Ticio

    Ticio Chieftain

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    I think it depends on the Bonus. I think they are meant to be bonuses that force you to expand, conquer and discover new lands but it can be done well or not.

    Well: -England can build fast dockyards in other continents, receiving military units and traders. This allow them to put a strong foothold and start a fast conquest for good tiles. So entering a new continent make them stronger every time. They have a synergie between the bonuses.

    Bad: -Spain the only bonuses for other continents are with trade (+1 production/food, and +6 gold) and themission improvements. The main problem for me is that it's hard to conquer other continents as Spain. The bonus are nice, but they normally come late, and +1 food and production feels a litlle dull when you have to pay 1000 production in a new city. I feel that the bonus get worse and worse as the game goes on, but you cannot profit them from the start (dificult to get on different continents as you don't have bias for intercontinental, but for water... not very good for spain) and you don't have help so you drag very much at the start.

    And now that the AI chooses alway Choral music, it's even more difficult to obtain the missions and the armada.

    I really liked the idea for spain, an intercontinental trade emulating the treasures fleets that conected Asia, America, Europe and Africa but at the end is difficult to acomplish.

    It's absrud that when I play England, I end up with massive trade lines that I have to defend from the privateers of my friends, but when I play Spain, I'm always privateering the british traders!

    I dont know if something can be done, like some way to give them extra merchants or make the intercontinental trade base on a %, so it gives food/production acording to the period (low at the beggining and increases as the same rate as the costs rises), or making it so you receive a 5% discount on districts if you send a trade rout from a city on other continent.

    Maybe for gold could be add a % bonus like when the trade goes throug canals, water and railroads if between continents
    or a bonus as longer it gets (like the new city that gives you a bonus each 5 tiles), this way it would emulate the real Spanish empire trade; very long > very risky > Very profitable.

    If you force the player to make very long lines of trade, they will be difficult to maintain, but that's the fun! a real excuse for the armadas defrending sea lines!


    But I don't know, I'm quite new to the game and maybe these are ideas that don't make much sense or are OP. I

    I'm enjoying very much the conversation, and learning a lot! thank you guys!!
     
  15. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    I chop 1-2 projects and it is usually enough if I really want religion. Founder beliefs are very very weak and I think it is simply better to wait for choral/jesuit education spread to empire and then spread someone else's religion. Chopping great prophet is at least easier than chopping Hypatia
     
  16. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    capital: builder--settler--some warrior/slingers to keep you safe--- settler --- Holy Site--Shrine
    2nd city: warrior/slinger--Holy Site--Shrine
    3rd city: Holy Site

    If you get Religious Settlement, then you can produce 1 less settler.
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It does sort of. Trade used to just be X gold but can now be 2xX If over water or the path shortened by tunnels/canals etc.
    it is sort of a different way of looking at it but then again similar to V.
    England gets your trade going purely because it has half price harbours but trade by sea is always asking for having traders gobbled, and the price of traders escalates with the number of civics/techs you have so a loss is always felt.

    With Spain I tend to go with commercial districts and use a single coastal city (with or without harbour) to go overseas. Without a harbour you can only go 15 tiles initially until you get a trading post. But be aware, the longer the route, the longer before you can change it and often the resources you use to protect do not make it worth protecting ... you end up like the real Spanish.

    I tend to build Spain up by growing locally then getting over a continent later with conquistadors and then if anyone wants to privateer you they can face your wrath in a way your civ does well.
     
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  18. Ticio

    Ticio Chieftain

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    In other Thread, that I open because I couldn`t understand anything going in the game :p, they gave to me this explanation about trade routes and I found it very very useful.

    But he says that the +6 gold modifier from spanish's bonus are not amplified by the "more efficient tiles". I'm not sure if the base +3/+6 gold is affected, That was the thing I was thinking could improve but anyways I'm okay with the +6 gold.

    What I don't think is strong is the +1 production/food, because after some turns it become insignificant ( +1 production for a building that cost 800 is less that +1 for 100) and I end up being to slow growing new cities in advanced eras.
    In contrast, with england I go really fast thanks to the port and less production for industrial zones.

    More ports = more traders = more food and production = a lot more expansion (having more traders let me sustain more cities at the same time, or make 1 city with a lot of food and production; better to have 3 normal traders than 1 slightly better).

    Maybe in the long run, as the traders become too expensive is better to have less, but more efficient. The thing is I never had this situation, as if I focus on trade with spain, I will not be able to have new science/religious districts for the missions, or I will not have enough culture to reach in good time "exploration" idea, or "mercantilism" or teocracy.


    I think I will just use England as it does a better job for my favorite game style. Easier to have trade routes and production, and easier to make these rutes more efficient (i love thinking canals, and making railroads to get more gold with those engeneers).

    Spain is just to difficult for me, I can't decide what path to follow and always end up failing at everything (loosing 1 or more bonuses because i don't reach it in time).[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020 at 2:08 PM
  19. Sostratus

    Sostratus Emperor

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    @Ticio you seem to have placed your post inside the quote brackets so it all appears as a quote from me. You may want to edit your post so it’s easier to read.
     
  20. Ticio

    Ticio Chieftain

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    Ups! My bad!
    Thank you for pointing it out! (and again for the trade explanation :p)
     

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