GIII Delta

Dianthus

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We're cranking up the difficulty for this one, but keeping the map size Tiny so you can all have lots of attempts at it. If you're anything like me you'll need lots of attempts at this difficulty :mischief: :

Here are the settings for this Gauntlet:
Difficulty: Sid
Mapsize: Tiny
Victory: Space Race
Date Due: July 15th
 

Tone

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We step on hallowed turf with this game. Moonsinger holds the number 1 (and only) slot in this section. I'll be happy to get within 100 years of her date.:D
 

AutomatedTeller

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I was wondering if we would get Sid on this gauntlet. It's good - I need Sid ;)

I'm scared, though - only times I've tried Sid, the AI sends a stack of about 8 warriors into my 2nd city in about 2900 BC ;)
 

killercane

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I have started a few of these previously, and just dont have the stick-to-itiveness to finish them out. IIRC, Moonsinger used the Aztecs to claim a lot of land early and used specialists. With the corruption on tiny sid, you have a first ring and that is pretty much it. Everything else is woefully corrupt until the Forbidden Palace.
 

Tone

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AutomatedTeller said:
I'm scared, though - only times I've tried Sid, the AI sends a stack of about 8 warriors into my 2nd city in about 2900 BC ;)
Try 'pelago then!
 

AutomatedTeller

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i am gonna! though, those times have all happened on pelago, when I end up sharing an island with an AI civ. I think if that happens, it warrants a restart...
 

sanabas

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AutomatedTeller said:
i am gonna! though, those times have all happened on pelago, when I end up sharing an island with an AI civ. I think if that happens, it warrants a restart...

Sure does. Could be interesting this one.
 

AutomatedTeller

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yeah - not many uncorrupt cities. Getting out of despotism will help - can you get the slingshot on sid, if you start with alpha, have only 2 rivals, on an arch map, and none of the others start with alpha? Or do they just out research you if you go all out?
 

superslug

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Given the CFC join dates of our current regulars, it's perhaps time to resurrect an old thread that proved to a lot of people that Sid was winnable.;)
 

AutomatedTeller

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oh - I believe it's winnable. It may even be winnable by me ;)

so, I'm taking a look at various formulae on corruption - it looks like, once we are in republic, with a forbidden palace, we can get 14 reasonably uncorrupt cities. With courthouses, we can get 20 cities that have 20% corruption or less, so that's not terrible.
 

sanabas

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AutomatedTeller said:
yeah - not many uncorrupt cities. Getting out of despotism will help - can you get the slingshot on sid, if you start with alpha, have only 2 rivals, on an arch map, and none of the others start with alpha? Or do they just out research you if you go all out?

You can definitely get it. It's possible you'll have to resort to researching writing-->philo, and trading for code of laws to get it though. I'll probably go with 3 SCI opponents rather than the minimum of 2 though, just for the extra chance of more free techs at the change of each age. Probably Babs, Sumer & Ottomans, as I think they tend to beeline for polytheism rather than writing a lot of the time.
 
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This is "hallowed turf" indeed! If I can get a Spaceship victory on Sid without first conquering and controlling the AI, I will be very happy. I know that it is not the date to beat for this Guantlet, but Moonsinger managed it in 1440AD. A good date will probably involve keeping the other AI civs around for help with research. I have generated some 'pelago maps for the Byzantines. I'll try that first.

If I cannot do it that way, I will return to my Aztec Sid approach. I got my 20k Sid game by conquest first, then putting the AI in a box and researching all myself. I got 20k culture in 1802AD, but I was still researching Mass Production. If I am more careful with city placement and specialists in corrupt cities, then I should be able to research on my own to the Modern Age more quickly.

Hopefully I can do it with the AI still around.
 

Moonsinger

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Hi guys,

I'm a little bit rusty, but I do have a plan on how you can beat my previous launch date.

Step #1: Pick your opponents wisely. Against at least 2 other scientific civs on a single landmass type of map. Since the faster the AIs can research, the faster you can launch your spaceship. The Korean is usually a very fast researcher (scientific and commence = can't get any tougher than that) so they would make a perfect/tough opponent.

Step #2: As soon as you are capable of, go to war against one of the civ and expand your empire. Try to farm an army or two but do not load any units into it. Basically, you are just creating some army units in reserve for future warfare. Leave the Korean (or whatever civ that has the Great Library or will build the GL for you) alone.

Step #3: Now, sit back and build up your business and troops. You need at most 16 musketmans, but at least 75 cannons and 50 cavalry.

Step #4: Just sit back, relax, and wait until around 1200 or 1300 AD or whenever you think your researcher has reached the modern age.;) Now, declare war and wait for them to come to you. IIRC, about half of their troops are obsoleted because they rarely upgrade, but you will surely go against tanks and mech infantry. Load up all your empty army units (in reserve) with musketmans or what the best defenders you have.

Step #5: Fight your war wisely and try not to get a lot of your units killed.;) Hint: You should have known by now that your army units isn't for combat. Just dress up your armies in shinning armor with big horns and drums, their true purpose is to scare of the enemy and to protect your stack of cannons and cavalry (since the AI often go for other easy target first...). Btw, did you know that the Spanish sent 180 men and one cannon against eighty thousand Inca warriors. Of course, if the Incan attacked, the Spanish wouldn't have a chance, but the Spanish managed to conquer the entire Inca Empire with ease. Anyway, your cannons should be able to blast your invaders down to 1HP. Your cavalry should be able to finish them up without much of a problem. It will get easier if you have a couple of cavalry armies too, but you need to build at least one defending army first.

Step #6: Liberate the Great Library and build your space ship.

PS: If these tips work, you can thank AutomatedTeller. He was the one that asked me to post something here.
 

superslug

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Moonsinger said:
I'm a little bit rusty....
So if you were playing III right now, you'd only score 85,000 points instead of 88,000? :lol:

Seriously, given that you've moved on to IV, it's very gracious of you to still drop by III at times to share slivers of you immense wisdom. :goodjob:
 
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Moonsinger said:
Step #4: Just sit back, relax, and wait until around 1200 or 1300 AD or whenever you think your researcher has reached the modern age.

Do you mean the start of the Modern Age, or later on? I guess it makes sense that if you let the AI run free into the Modern Age they will either manage too good a military or get a spaceship themselves. Are you suggesting that the Great Library will get you all spaceship techs, and that you will have prebuilds ready (not really possible), or do you mean that the Great Library will get you into the modern age? I guess for the GL thing to work, you must not have Education. Wow, that is a long time to remain in the the Middle Ages while the AI civs are way ahead of you, especially with no banks and no railroads. What sort of government are you suggesting?
 

Moonsinger

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SpiffyKeen7744 said:
Do you mean the start of the Modern Age, or later on? I guess it makes sense that if you let the AI run free into the Modern Age they will either manage too good a military or get a spaceship themselves. Are you suggesting that the Great Library will get you all spaceship techs, and that you will have prebuilds ready (not really possible), or do you mean that the Great Library will get you into the modern age? I guess for the GL thing to work, you must not have Education. Wow, that is a long time to remain in the the Middle Ages while the AI civs are way ahead of you, especially with no banks and no railroads. What sort of government are you suggesting?

My government = Republic
My civ = Ottoman

You really don't have time to build any bank. If you need money, just go to war.;) Technically, you could make a fortune by selling off your resources. The more advance the AI get, the more they will pay for your resources.

It really depends on the situation. My civ usually is at war 1/3 of the time, I don't like letting any of the AIs to have more land than me (it's ok for them to develop the land for me before 500 AD, but never after). Don't let them to become too powerful! I also usually form an alliance with one of them against the other.

Also, because they are all scientific civs, chances are they will get Education before they finish their Great Library. There is at least 75% chance that you will have to build the Great Library yourself (not to worry, the Great Library doesn't take that long to build). With a little bit of luck, the AI won't have any aluminum. Since I'm usually in control 50% of the land on the average, there is a very good chance that the AI doesn't have any aluminum. If I don't have any aluminum, I can go get some. On the other hand, if the AI doesn't have any aluminum, they usually don't try to do anything about it (I have never seen them go to war over aluminum).

Anyway, you don't have to wait until the Modern Age. You could have finished/captured the Great Library in the middle of the industrial age, then relocate your palace to the AI core (they already build all those markets , banks, and factories for you), now just take your time to research the rest of the tech.
 
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That makes sense. If much of your trade in the middle of the game goes towards supporting your forces in Republic, then getting the GL makes up for the science you lost. However, there is still research to do even afterwards. You are right about not letting the AI get too powerful.

I'll try something like that whether or not my archipelago game ends up well.
 

killercane

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My approach was a bit different. I chose Iroquois in order to get a pretty easy monarchy slingshot (opponents Ottomans, Sumeria, Byz) on Continents. Since they like to head to Monarchy, you can usually easily trade up to mysticism and on the interturn when you get philosophy trade for polytheism and take monarchy (requires a trade for WC as well).

I share a continent with the Ottomans. After settling a quick ring, I began to build two turn chariots, until the land was improved enough to get HBR and build two turn MWs. After 25 or so MWs were built, I declared on the Ottomans and began taking their cities (about 600 BC). This is helped by the fact they are in the MA and are building about 5 wonders in their towns. After clearing them out I switched to Republic and traded up using gpt, resources, and luxes to get to tech parity.

After clearing the Ottomans out and having my entire continent and about half the total land, the Sumerians are quickly dispatching the Byzantines. I entered the IA about 300 AD. With the Sumers as the superpower, Ottomans eliminated, and the Byz as a 3cc, we will see if I can lie, cheat and steal my way to the MA and then hold off Sumeria's spaceship build.
 

Moonsinger

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Finally, I found my Civ3 CD and will re-installed it soon. Now, I can at least verify my tips (because it's uncool to give out tips that don't work), but first, I will have to learn how to play Civ3 all over again.

IIRC, my Aztecs game was really a fast conquest that went wrong. I ran out of steam and didn't have enough troops to finish the remaining civ...so I was just cruising along and ending up with a spaceship (because my opponent didn't have any aluminum).
 
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