Gilgamesh of Sumeria (Deity Fractal)

krikav

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I might give it a new go with tech trading on then. But will micro the start more. :D
 

BornInCantaloup

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An issue with this start is we need to look over our shoulder during the whole expansion phase to avoid crashing the eco.
My Eridu built a Galley and 5 workboats (!) before contributing anything else. This is not what you want from your average city 2.

I might give it a new go with tech trading on then. But will micro the start more. :D
Well, those are the most important turns.
 
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BornInCantaloup

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Also Settle On Coast Good ?
On the ivory ? Credible.
It could allow you to go BW before AH (ignore Hunting ?), which has a lot of benefits. You lose the cow but retain the rice. Gain the ability to chop/whip.

When settling on the PH, the inability to research Bronze early stems directly from having researched Huntin + AH first.
 

krikav

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With map knowledge, that option might be the correct one even. The island is nice, and overseas traderoutes with the others are very good!
 

Fish Man

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I'm too burnt out to try this map until after some long break, but based on @Henrik75 's recent videos and catapult discovery, would caveman strats work?

Spoiler :

We could try to elepult Rags, and then brute-force-engineering Washington and SIllyman. With the newfound catapult knowledge, we now know that trebs and knights are definitely viable against rifles, so we can just treb them both to death in a slow grind. After having 40+ cities to ourselves on this continent, we can go to space or build 200 tanks to finish the job. It wouldn't matter if they have modern armor or whatever; we can just completely roll the other continent over with sheer volume. A bit idealistic, but it could work, no? :).
 

BornInCantaloup

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@Coastal capital :
It would probably translate into 4 inland cities (copper+rice) before committing to Galley + double Workboat (110H),
Which could prove beneficial if it means more workers to improve the land. Delaying the offshore investment should improve the land eco.

Reaching Fishing + Pottery in a timely manner is still a stake.
Offhand, I see Sailing coming after Pottery.

Also, I see the fast Library as being a trap. Backfilling Hunting after Writing is a real possibility.

@Fish Man:
Invading Ragnar first cuts your trade routes to like 30+ overseas cities. Not my preferred route :lol:
Please gives us details on your catapult strats ? Macemen City Raider III are not Gundpowder units and, thus, can redrum Rifles/Infantries ?
 
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Fish Man

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@Coastal capital :
It would probably translate into 4 inland cities (copper+rice) before committing to Galley + double Workboat (110H),
Which could prove beneficial if it means more workers to improve the land. Delaying the offshore investment should improve the land eco.

Reaching Fishing + Pottery in a timely manner is still a stake.
Offhand, I see Sailing coming after Pottery.

Also, I see the fast Library as being a trap. Backfilling Hunting after Writing is a real possibility.

@Fish Man:
Invading Ragnar first cuts your trade routes to like 30+ overseas cities. Not my preferred route :lol:
Please gives us details on your catapult strats ? Macemen City Raider III are not Gundpowder units and, thus, can redrum Rifles/Infantries ?


So Henrik discovered recently that barrage catapults, despite certainly dying to things like rifles, always do more collateral damage than trebs because of their higher base strength. They're dirt-cheap at that stage of the game too, so you just need to sac like 5-6 per city to take on even things like Sitting Bull's superrifles, before you get decent or winning odds with trebs, then maces and knights. He demonstrated this in his recent live games, where he rushed protective rifles while having no gunpowder units of his own and handily won with trebs/knights, and then won with samurai vs infantry using the barrage trick. He did the former on deity and the latter only on immortal, but even on immortal, as big of a difference as trebs vs infantry and machine guns proves the strategy viable. This is revolutionary because, previously, people had pretty much thought you needed cannons + rifles or at the very very least trebs + rifles to fight opposing rifles, but now, it turns out that you can get away with quite a bit less.
 

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krikav

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I doubt that it would work, it's true that catapults and collateral can make magical things happen. But you really need the numbers then, it's a huge differeance battling a 8city AI and a 15 city one.
Also, you have the problem with stack protection too.

Early library a trap?
I like the early library! :D
 

soundjata

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A Library cost as much as a settler.
What does it give :confused:
I agree with BIC that it should come after the initial wave of cities :)
 

krikav

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It's only 45 hammers, and you kind of want to grow your capital anyway.
It gives you 25% research! In this capital there are alot of natural commerce, the camps are at 2coins each and every other citizen adds another.

Got to be worth it!
 

soundjata

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T132
Spoiler :
If you looked carefully at last episode, there is a GS coming!
I use the guy to bulb compass allowing a couple of expensive (but worthy I think) trades:


Ragnar gets nothing :)
Also this is done without Isabella or Catherine knowing anything about it :queen:

After that I could still reach civil service in a timely manner because MOM failgold.
I also meet the rest of the crew (and apply usual gift tactics so as to open borders)

I then switch into Bureau + Serfdom (no better alternative I think. Cities are too small for caste system)

After that I research Meditation > Philo because I want to beeline Nationalism.

Plan is to produce Taj Mahal ASAP in Uruk and maybe aim at Laborkillism after that (switch into Paci + Caste with bigger cities)
But I am debating wether a switch now could be more efficient (need to waste 2 turns ouside GA...)




Oh and Ragnar started a very ambitious oversea attack versus Isabella. I think he might collapse under his own army :D
Nappy stopped plotting... (I also gave in to his 300:commerce: demand)

Heroic Epic in Cap.
National Epic nowhere
Espionage vs Washi 12/8 and more zigs are coming :rockon:
 
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soundjata

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It's only 45 hammers, and you kind of want to grow your capital anyway.
It gives you 25% research! In this capital there are alot of natural commerce, the camps are at 2coins each and every other citizen adds another.

Got to be worth it!
oh yeah I'm dumb :hammer2: 45:hammers: so half a settler.

I don't think the +25%:science: matter much while we are in binary research and can chose to delay research for some turns...
Except maybe if you could get a crucial tech (Math?) a few turns earlier.

Edit: I think granaries on the other hand are valuable. I can never reach the happy cap in my game. Need to grow.
 
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krikav

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If you don't expand lika crazy early, you will have the slider very high for some time. And there is alot of tech that we need early on.
I think writing early and an early library is a good idea.
Thats what I'll do in my new attempt at least.

Earlier focus on production requires something to catch up with commerce wise.. Is that earlier pottery and cottages? I think I want farms all over this capital and second city doesn't benefit from cottages either.

But we can make more trials and try to evaluate perhaps?
 

soundjata

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yes cottages I don't really like on this map (unless @BornInCantaloup shows otherwise :groucho:)

Granary assisted growth and whipage on the other hand ; I would value very high :scan:
work boats > granaries > lighthouses > libraries ?

Except if we go full monty island ofc :lol:
 
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krikav

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Spoiler T82 :


Settler @ pop4, with some warrior overflow (by working ivory last turn of pop3) and then finishing the second ivory, the settler is done quite early.
Hunt->AH->Writing.
Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG


Want to reach pop5 anyway, so why not on the library?
I think this almost counts like adding a solid 4 beaker per turn for the forseable future. Must be good!
Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG


Some turns left on HBR, masonry is done since Ragnar showed a red fist (wanted to start walls in case it was me), but it was Washington.
Myst is half-done because with the marble I wanted to make a try for ToAR failgold, but it was built in a distant land. :)

I think it's a possible pivot point before here... instead of doing what I'm doing, which is continuing the landgrab, you could just stay at 4 cities and start massing an army and try for construction.
Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG


 

soundjata

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Yes every new city now will decrease your research power.

Fish & forests is good anyways. A 6th city maybe not.... (gold?)

Maybe building some GS points in Eridu (and starting on barracks) > Settler...
 
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BornInCantaloup

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Thanks, Fish Man, for the explanation and the links. War Weariness though ? I'll click.

@Early Library :
In my mind, it was more about the :science: cost of Writing (---> tech path) than the :hammers: cost of the Library itself. The start is so tech hungry that researching Writing might delay some more essential techs.
Well... I based my playthrough on that assumption. I don't claim it to be right. It's just my reasoning.
 

BornInCantaloup

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All plans were ruined @T85.
I hate you...
Spoiler :
... Ragnaaar !!! :devil: This is a declaration of war ! :aargh: I promise I will go ICS on you until cities flip ! [pissed]
I will go to great lengths to repair the injury, I will research Drama, I will found Sushi Co if I have to ! :badcomp:

Spoiler :


New plans.

Napoleon DoWed Washington. I have a feeling I'm going to get dragged in that war shortly before Ragnar takes peace :mischief:
Could trade up to Iron but Monarchy is not accessible with my techs.
 
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