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Gillard v Rudd, Round 4

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Camikaze, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    Basically.

    Some Australians do see it that way; hence the reaction to when Rudd was deposed the first time.

    However, the idea is when you vote, you vote for a party, not any one leader. The prime minister is simply whoever is the majority party leader in the House of Representatives. There's really not a lot of prestige in being PM.

    This, also.
     
  2. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    It's almost like people don't fully understand their parliamentary system they are in. That is why I am not too bothered by this, since it was the policies in the first place that was going to undo this government. Not like a change in leader will change the policies.
     
  3. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    On the one hand, your system is indeed more stable, but on the other, our system is more accountable. If your president does something terrible in their first year, they don't have to face the voters for another three years (or even never if they're in their second term). If a prime minister does something terrible here, they can be out of office immediately. A downside of this may be that politics are more poll-driven; a drop in the polls always leads to leadership speculation. But the idea of accountability is central to parliamentary democracy; ministers are immediately accountable to parliament, which is elected by the people.

    Related to this is the point that it's not like a deposition of a prime minister is the same as the deposition of the president. The words 'prime minister' do not appear in the Australian Constitution. Power is vested in the Cabinet, the leader of which is the PM. So the PM is our 'leader', but that's not an analogous position to the American President, who holds much more power. This means that the PM is less of the 'big boss person' as the representative of the big boss people.

    Kevin Rudd is being appointed PM at the moment.
     
  4. Miles Teg

    Miles Teg Nuclear Powered Mentat

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    Is Rudd really going to get a honeymoon period? Seems like being an ousted PM who clawed his way back into power after Gillard and Labor in general started to tank in the polls wouldn't expect much in the way of voter warmth.
     
  5. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    The last poll showed a two-party preferred split of 57-43 in favour of the opposition with Gillard in charge, and 50-50 with Rudd in charge. So Labor would be hoping that that does translate to an actual honeymoon period. Once people realise that Rudd is simply a different leader of the same party, and once the opposition attack ads get out, then his stock will fall. Labor will be hoping that they can hold as much of that 7% as possible up until the election.
     
  6. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 The Continuation of the Dream Supporter

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  7. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Rudd will win the election AGAIN
    Gillard will then become Prime minister AGAIN.
     
  8. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    You would think so, working on theory of the honeymoon period. Surely support for Rudd is only going to go down. Though if the polls over previous years have shown us one thing, it's that a lot of voters are entirely unpredictable and don't base their opinions on anything remotely resembling reason.
     
  9. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    If it was Costello I would vote liberal, but its Abbott (aka the Mad Monk)
    Maybe the Liberals should try something like that, run one candidate and then replace them after the election ?
     
  10. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    I was going to suggest Howard, but upon checking, I see he couldn't even keep his own district. (riding?)
     
  11. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    Howard is gone for good (thank Christ).

    And we call them divisions or constituencies.
     
  12. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Something I kinda missed at first in all the reshuffle is that the Senate Leader is now Penny Wong; an Asian-Australian lesbian. So that's nicely groundbreaking, and it's a pretty good sign that this wasn't news.
     
  13. rugbyLEAGUEfan

    rugbyLEAGUEfan Deity

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    Hopefully more groundbreaking than Gillard's tenure was to be (and no, I'm no rampant Gillard hater but I'm left disappointed that's for sure).

    Here's a nice link outlining the brutal nature of Australian politics by the way

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/27/vicious-fights-australian-politics
     
  14. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    I actually think Rudd will change several Labor policies. He'll push to the right, despite being something of a leftist himself, in order to win votes. He'll almost certainl back-track on some of those more rightist moves - such as the new, harsher asylum-seeker policy - if he wins the election.

    I very much doubt it. I think Rudd will want some more time than the average person in his position, simply so he can be seen to be "undoing" Gillard's "mistakes." It might be a little early - Rudd has already mentioned the coincidence of the election falling on Yom Kippur - but I doubt he'll make much of a change to the date.

    It's hard to be PM if you've resigned from politics, which Gillard has done. She's not contesting the next election.

    I had forotten all about that. I realised she'd been elected Senate Leader, but since I'm not a racist or a homophobe her ethnicity and sexuality never even occurred to me. Her gender only did because her predecessor mentioned it in his valedictory speech. I'm very surprised the media didn't make it an issue though. I'm even more surprised Abbot, noted bastion of tolerance, didn't either. He seems shell-shocked in his public appearances. I think he's scared that Rudd's numbers will result in an electoral defeat for the Coalition, or Turnbull taking him out before the election.
     
  15. Trev

    Trev Prince

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    It would be a foolish voter that would re-elect Labor again at the next election, so many people hate Rudd in the parliamentary party, that they will unseat him again at the first chance. They only put him there to save their seats in parliament and give themselves that chance to depose him. It is a critically divided party that gave leadership to a man they hate simply to try and fool voters into voting for them.
    As Rudd is a great campaigner with the ability to launch new and interesting policies to divert attention from his failures, the odds are high that the Labor party support will indeed pick up a bit, but Rudd's inability to manage the process of government and the implementation of policies make him a poor choice for Prime Minister
     
  16. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    That is clearly false. If Labor did that they'd lose government for even longer than they had to wait under Howard. None of the current political players - Shorten being the obvious heir-apparent - would take such a risk, as it would eliminate any chance of themselves ever rising to the position of Prime Minister.

    Which, if you remember, was also their reason for ousting him for Gillard in the first place (all these stories of a dysfunctional government and authoritarian leadership weren't revealed until Rudd made his first comeback attempt in February last year).

    Isn't it the goal of all political parties to get as many people to vote for them as possible?

    Rudd is so much better than Abbot that even if he was terrible at implementing policies - and I'd like to see a single example that's not the ETS or his APEC-style regional federation that was never intended as anything but a sound-byte - he'd still be the obvious choice for intelligent voters this election.
     
  17. Quackers

    Quackers The Frog

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    I bet Rudd feels good now, especially after Gillard stabbed him in the back.
    I guess it is all fair and square now :)
     
  18. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    I'm firmly convinced that Rudd would have stepped aside for Gillard by now if she'd simply waited her turn. Now she's forced into retirement. Serves her right.
     
  19. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    Abbott comes across as one of the slimiest individuals I've ever been aware of. His it really feasible for him to become PM?
     
  20. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    Very much so. He's incredibly sleazy and slimy, but Gillard was so unpopular that he was winning by default. In every interview he's given since Rudd returned to power he's looked somewhat shell-shocked. I think he's very frightened that Rudd will pull out a victory, utterly humiliating Abbot and ending his career, since if he manages to lose this previously in-the-bag election, he'll be kicked out of his own party forthwith.
     

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