GK1- The Wrath of Khan!!

[Gengis Khan]

With a 2-0 SG record with the completion of ER1 & EM6, I've decided to start my own.

However I was a little put off by how easily we rolled over everyone at the end of ER1 & even EM6 was a guaranteed space victory after we decided to go for that. So I’m looking for a challenge! I want to suffer a humiliating defeat at the hands of the AI for once. With that in mind I’ve selected a variant that should put us at a severe disadvantage.

Monarch 5CC NOW!!

Difficulty: Monarch
Size: Standard
Landmass & Shape: Random
Temp & Age: Random
Barbs: Raging
Opponents: 7 Random (as much as I’d love to make sure Persia/Rome/Greece weren’t involved that adds to the challenge.
Civ: Up for debate ??
Victory Conditions: All enabled
Goal: Can I be so bold to suggest Conquest, although we’ll take any W we can get!

No exploits!!
24 hour “got it”, 48 to play. Although I’m not going to be too strict with these, if you need an extra day or so just ask & you shall receive.

The variant goes as follows:
*5 City-Challenge -- pretty self explanatory, if you don’t know what that means please don’t sign up.
*Non-Oscillating AW --We have to declare war on the first Civ we meet on the turn we meet them, we continue this war until they are wiped off the planet. On the turn we wipe them out, we have to declare war on the 2nd Civ we met. Rinse & repeat as necessary.

This will allow us to trade, but we’ll need to because with us being at war the entire game and the other Civs not at war for the most part, they tech speed will quickly outdistance us.

I’ve heard that a Monarch AW is a little harder then Diety, while this isn’t a true AW the 5CC part will push it well over the top.

I’m looking for 3-4 other brave/suicidal players to join me in this quest for greatness.

Gengis Khan
Our Resident Flyboy
An Irish Monk
A past & future HOFer
A man inlove with his car

Order we met the Civs:
England- Dead!
France- Dead!
India- 1 city
Russia- 3 cities
Zulu- our only remaining threat.
Babylon
Persia

 

[andvruss]

A chance to play in the great Khan's first SG? Must....join.......but I don't I can. I am comfortable at Monarch level, but with the varianst, I don't think I can play this, and I'll bow out to let room for other people. I just don't probably have the skills.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

You know I'm in there!!

**looks around for gorm**

Might I be so bold as to suggestion Persia as our civ. I'm playing the X-man in the 6-2 tourney game. Immortals rock, and the industrious/scientific combination is very powerful. Plus then we wouldn't have to fight them.

 

[Arathorn]

Just an FYI, I believe you've described what others call NOW -- non-oscillating war, which is distinctly different from oscillating war (as others have defined it), where you're always changing opponents.

From my experience, AW adds about 1.5 difficulty levels, while NOW adds about .5.
I've not played enough 5CC to know how much harder it is. But this does look to be an interesting and exciting game. I wish you lots of luck!

This is not a sign-up. I don't have time, what with starting two new games when C3C comes out.

Arathorn

 

[Bede]

O Mighty Khan,

The humble Irish monk would like to help you chronicle your conquest. May I join?

Bede

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Bede,
Welcome to Civfanatics!!

 

[Gengis Khan]

I was thinking about putting you & gorm’s name in the mix already without even talking to you guys.

Persia is defiantly worth considering, after all they are my favorite Civ. With us only having 5 cities only needing half the workers will be a definite benefit to our gpt once we hit the limit.

Science is almost a must, free techs will help us out immensely.

IMHO Militaristic would be a bigger advantage then industrial though, unfortunately the Scientific/Military Civ is German, who’s UU blows the big one.

I think Persia will most likely be the Civ for us, but I'd like to weigh every possibility. We'll need some serious strategy & planning from day 1 to pull this one off.

Other possibilities:
Rome- Military/commercial(more gold for trading)
China- Military/industrial
I think trading off scientific for commercial or industrial wouldn't probably be a step backwards, however they have the military trait. Plus both have a great UU(although not quite the Immortal IMHO)..

 

[Gengis Khan]

Arathorm- thanks for the info. I was thinking Oscillating since it would be changing, but you're probably right. Also since there have been other NOW variants, I'll edit it to help clarify. Thanks!

Bebe- Welcome to CFC!(however I have the feeling that we just brought a lurker out of his shell). How comfortable with Emporer/Diety are you? Any AW experience? I’m only asking because this SG won’t be for the feint of heart. If you think you’re crazy enough to try it with us, then I would be honored to have your first SG attempt be with us.

 

[handy900]

Hi Khan,

I've got AWM wins (2 as Celts, China, Ottomans) but I am
0-3 @ diety, so I guess AWM is easier for me than diety (as least so far). 5CC AWM... now that's an interesting challenge.

I've never played a 5CC, so I won't be able to add much there from experience, just what I have read. I can probably help some with the AWM part though.

One link that shoul help you alot with AWM is...
Always War Monarch Questions

You'll definitly need to use explorers in tandem with an army to pillage offensively as discussed in this thread...

Offensive Pillaging

I won't have time for this one Sounds like alot of fun, and it should be very challenging. Not being at war with everyone should help quite a bit.

From the FWIW department, here's a few ideas for you based on lessons I've learned the hard way in AWM.

Build a load of Cats. The bombardment helps a ton with the kill ratio, and the quick upgrade to cannon helps alot. I have never gon on offense in AWM before chivalry, but give you are only at war with one person at a time that should make it easier to go on offense earlier.

Keeps some chariots & horses around to kill off the last member of a stack & then retreat back into a city. Don't let ANY units limp home to heal if you can help it. Hope this obvious strategy does not insult your intelligence...

Fortify on mountains & hills and force the AI onto flat land where he gets no defensive bonus. Make him come to your kill zone.

A weaker AI is an easier AI. If you get a lucky very early leader, rush the pyramids so keep it away from the AI.

Plan ahead if you want to GL. Start a prebuild. The AI's not at war will likely beat you to Lit. I've won an AWM without the GL, but it is definitly a steep hill. 5CC AWM with no GL would be a challenge!

One last suggestion... for a 5cc consider the Ottomans. Great UU, Industrious + Science lasts all game long. You'll only need to build 5 barracks, so Militaristic may not help as much as you think.

Hope this helps. I'll be lurking this one...

 

[Gengis Khan]

Thanks for the links & the info. I've learned those lessons the hard way as well from AW experience & DI1(yes, a shameless plug for a SG I'm in. Sue me).

I think with Immortals & only going up against 1 civ at a time we'll be able to go on the offensive ALOT sooner than that.

While the Ottomans would be a great choice there's one problem......... I don't have PTW. Therefore all PTW Civs are out for us & the AI.

I also agree that the getting GL would be a huge help to our cause. Almost a necessity really.

Basically all the NOW is doing is forcing to stay at war the whole game, this has several disadvantages: Can't pick out opponent, can't make peace if we need a quick heal, boost in troops, or to concentrate on infrastructure, and no "pointy stick" research.

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by Gengis Khan
...no "pointy stick" research.

Now that's funny!!

 

[gormdragan]

ME ME ME ME ME I WANT IN!!!!

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Handy's thread is very good. I wish I had read it before DI1.

Here is another good read: Charis' 5CC Guide
here is another SG that is in progress that covers the 5CC variant: TJ1 - The Famous Five

From our experience in DI1, I know we should make a bee-line for the Great Library.

I'm rethinking the civ. I think we want to be militaristic for the increased leader advantage.

Romans: Great UU - 3 attack, 3 defense, but we'll have our GA in despotism. Commerical can be powerful.

Chinese: The Rider rocks, gives a Middle Ages GA. Industrious is a huge advantage.

Germans: I know it's UU is very late, but we could trigger the GA with the Library and a militaristic wonder (Great Wall, Sun-Tzu). Plus they're scientific. The ability to pull in a free tech with each new age will be huge.

On the NOW - variant, a question: Can we pull other civs in with a MA or not?

 

[gormdragan]

At monarchy, if we pick a non-scientific trend civ, we can use 40turn gambits and ride AI research, this allow us to concentrate on our infrastructure and units. I am a little against an ancient UU civ for 5CC as it is likely to drag to industrial ages and beyond. The initial advantage can be quickly lost when we max-out cities in a hurry. I rather pick a middle age/industrial age UU and i think militaristic is a must (industrial may not be very useful as we run out of workable land pretty quickly).

I have limited experience with 5CC, having only won twice using 1 civ (no prize for correct guess). Because I did not have AW restriction, I was able to trade to maintain tech parity, and skipped GL entirely. In view of our DI experience, I would suggest beelining for GL.

 

[Bede]

Originally posted by Gengis Khan

Bebe- Welcome to CFC!(however I have the feeling that we just brought a lurker out of his shell). How comfortable with Emporer/Diety are you? Any AW experience? I’m only asking because this SG won’t be for the feint of heart. If you think you’re crazy enough to try it with us, then I would be honored to have your first SG attempt be with us. [/B]

Just fininishing an Emperor game. Tried for domination but will have to settle for retirement win. Not enough turns left to launch a space ship and only one furious AI left so the UN is out.

Won one other Emperor game, can't remember just how. Have several Monarch wins under all conditions, including AW domination.

This will be first attempt at SG. Have lurked on a couple. Looking forward to the fun.

Bede

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Using my handy-dandy Civ 3 data sheet:
In vanilla there are six militaristic civs:
Romans: Ancient Age UU - Commerical
Germans: Industrial Age UU - Scientific
Chinese: Middle Age UU - Industrious
Japanese: Middle Age UU - Religious
Aztecs: Ancient Age UU - Religious
Zulu: Ancient Age UU - Expansionist

Obviously the expansionist trait won't help us.
Having played as Japan in DI1, I don't think the religious trait is all that helpful once you make your one and only government change.

Ancient Age UUs will give a GA in despotism. So it looks like we want to be either the Germans or the Chinese.

I think gorm is right in that the industrious trait won't be a huge help, although think about how quickly you can railroad to the front.

 

[Gengis Khan]

gorm!! I knew you'd show up for this one.

The more I think about the civ the more I think you guys are both right.

Militaristic- The trait that keeps on giving.
Scientific- See above
Religious- practically worthless, I forsee only 1 change of government.
Expansionist- OK, will allow us to get more goody huts, but after the initial 25 or so turns will be pointless. Also wasted if we happen to start on an island.
Commercial- Decent, although lowered corruption won't really help us with only 5 cities.
Industrial- While a huge advantage in the beggining, it will taper out as well. Not enough workable tiles, given us long enough it eventually almost becomes worthless.

Germany is starting to sound better & better, China would be a pretty good choice as well.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

That's funny, Gengis and I were working on the same thing at the same time. Must be a great minds thing

GK, you convinced me... I vote Germany.

 

[Gengis Khan]

Originally posted by Bede
This will be first attempt at SG. Have lurked on a couple. Looking forward to the fun.

Bede

Welcome to the crew!

 

[gormdragan]

Hehe, from my limited 5CC experience, AI will railroad to the front for you, since they occupy most of the land (we have only 5CC).

I dun believe I am going to say this, "I pick german over chinese".